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Anyone have a copy of "AppleTalk Phase 2 Protocol Specification" (C0144LL/A)?
See title. This was available thru APDA as part number C0144LL/A, but doesn't seem to have been archived. It covers nitty gritty AppleTalk networking details that aren't covered in "Inside AppleTalk" and is considered an addendum to that book. Apple's APDA listing says that IA 2nd Edition incorporates all the information, while old usenet posts say there is stuff missing and only found in that document.

Posted by: NJRoadfan on 2024-04-03 15:01:50
Is there a copy on one of Apple's early 90s CD? https://www.savagetaylor.com/2024/0...ntosh-1984-to-1996/#spinside_mac_1989_to_1993

Posted by: Realitystorm on 2024-04-03 19:44:39
Not as far as I can tell.

archive.org

Macintosh: Mac - SpInside Mac - May92 Text : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

Macintosh: Mac - SpInside Mac - May92 Text
archive.org

There was someone on VCF advertising one, but that was in 2009. sadge

Posted by: Mk.558 on 2024-04-03 19:59:52
Unfortunately this was a document you had to pay $20 for. Apple didn't seem to release it digitally later on. Quite a bit of APDA documentation is likely lost because of this. Maybe @al kossow knows of someone who might have this in their "stacks" somewhere?

The bit of information I'm looking for is the Apple documented procedure for boot strapping a non-seed router on an extended AppleTalk network. I'm also hoping it fills in some noticeable gaps in some topics in Inside AppleTalk.

Posted by: NJRoadfan on 2024-04-04 04:17:39
Bet you some guy on VCF has one. Might be single digit copies of that worldwide: that's a very specific thing to ask the ol' Dogcow building boys for.

Posted by: Mk.558 on 2024-04-04 04:24:32
I'll keep an eye out while I finish going through the Apple CDs I'm writing about on my site. I assume you've already looked at the different technical and knowledge base articles from the late 80s and early 90s about Phase 2. Eg: https://developer.apple.com/library/archive/technotes/nw/nw_03.html#//apple_ref/doc/uid/DTS10002545

Posted by: Realitystorm on 2024-04-04 04:47:55
boot strapping a non-seed router on an extended AppleTalk network
Could you maybe reverse-engineer the behaviour from a network of several Macs running AIR (which we can consider as reference implementation)

Or reverse-engineer from the Mac OS X AppleTalk stack?

Posted by: robin-fo on 2024-04-04 05:16:12
Well, as a long shot I just sent Alan Oppenheimer a message on LinkedIn, he presented at WWDC 1990 about Apple Talk Phase 2 and referenced the document you are looking for. He was part of the original Macintosh networking team.

Posted by: Realitystorm on 2024-04-04 05:16:40
Well, as a long shot I just sent Alan Oppenheimer a message on LinkedIn, he presented at WWDC 1990 about Apple Talk Phase 2 and referenced the document you are looking for. He was part of the original Macintosh networking team.
He responded! He's looking to see if he has a copy.

Posted by: Realitystorm on 2024-04-04 07:58:49
Is this just where we go down on our knees and go "pleeeease send us anything APDAish you have about appletalk pleeeeeease?" 😛

Posted by: cheesestraws on 2024-04-04 08:35:52
Thats... promising news.

I have a general idea of how the bootstrap should work, mostly be monitoring what my Fastpath and netatalk do when starting up. Maybe top secret information like what off-the-shelf transformer to use for LocalTalk will be found.

Posted by: NJRoadfan on 2024-04-04 09:31:19
..and if we are wishing for other things, there is always the 67 page "Print Spooling in an AppleTalk Network" APDA product # A7Z0013. Although I really don't need it since Adobe documented most everything the LaserWriter driver does.

Posted by: NJRoadfan on 2024-04-04 12:43:16
So no luck on the document so far, but Alan Oppenheimer did respond
"I have lots of other documents, and if I ever retire, maybe I'll organize them (I gave a bunch to Stanford many years ago too). Right now I'm way too busy (big intro next month; see artauthority.museum). It would be fun to have an AppleTalk zoom this summer sometime."

So, if he finds the time for a zoom meeting I'll let the group know and hopefully he'll be able to answer some LocalTalk questions for all of you.

Posted by: Realitystorm on 2024-04-11 15:14:14
Alan just got back to me again and says he is now less busy, I started a new thread to gather who would be interested in attending and what types of questions people want asked so I can send the questions to him in advance.

Posted by: Realitystorm on 2024-05-22 07:45:55
I just came across a Usenet Archive of binhex files, it includes Macintosh Technical Notes - 250 AppleTalk Phase 2 on the Macintosh
Not sure if it would be useful to you or not.

Posted by: Realitystorm on 2024-12-24 16:56:30
Looks like a MacWrite file. Imported into Word 5.1, exported as PDF, then optimized for Acrobat 5. This one is December of '89, the other one is August of '89.

Posted by: Mk.558 on 2024-12-24 21:23:06
@NJRoadfan did you ever find this? I found some more information on the CDSN Autumn 92 CD in the Seminars folder under both AppleTlk Fundamentals and Lan Minds. Still need to find the program for Creator Type = PANT, File Type = PNTG. Google says a program called FullPaint, but I can only find version 1.0. For the rest you will will need MS Word, and MacDraw

Posted by: Realitystorm on 2025-08-23 16:33:32
About every 6 months or so I'll search the web again, because I'm curious too. It's most likely a 25-ish page thing or less with a summary of Inside AppleTalk, Second Edition.

That information is mildly interesting but doesn't go over the stuff a Phase 2 spec document would. An example of one that would be the AFP 2.1 specification document.

Think the only way we'll find it is a lucky ebay find. The odds are pretty low right now that anybody even has that document, as apparently only one person ever listed something like that, and it was on VCF, and nobody bought it.

Posted by: Mk.558 on 2025-08-24 07:23:14
That information is mildly interesting but doesn't go over the stuff a Phase 2 spec document would. An example of one that would be the AFP 2.1 specification document.
Yeah, I saw you have the APF 2.1 spec document on your site, but I haven't seen the C0144LL/A document yet. I keep hoping it turns up on one of the reference CDs.

Posted by: Realitystorm on 2025-08-24 08:18:47
File Type = PNTG
If memory serves, PNTG is MacPaint...

Posted by: Tashtari on 2025-08-24 09:25:56