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| Apple Sound Chip (ASC) - Did anything utilize the synthesis? |
Posted by: olePigeon on 2019-10-20 14:59:47
I didn't even know that the Macintosh II line came with Four-voice wavetable synthesis. I don't recall any games or software actually utilizing it. Or maybe they did, but I never realized? Seems to me like software just used digitized sound and not the synth chip.
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Posted by: jessenator on 2019-10-20 15:17:41
My knee jerk response is that the Mac II was so friggin expensive that no one thought [it financially wise] to develop games specifically to its hardware spec.
ProTools would be dependent on nubus interface cards... Im trying to scrounge around in my head for something that would've used it. The IIgs had an Ensoniq wavetable chip, didnt it? Are they related? Sorry, tangent.
This is right around the time of the PC compatible sound card era start with the bee-in-a-box Creative Labs ISA cards. But I dont recall when the GameBlaster/SoundBlaster started to get widespread adoption by devs. 91-92?
It'd be interesting to see if anyone did take advantage for some early software instrument or the like though...
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Posted by: olePigeon on 2019-10-20 16:27:59
BMOW actually used it when he was experimenting with ROM hacking, generating simple startup tones.
Edit: Oh, now I know where it's used! Sad Mac chimes. But that's the only thing I can think of. 😀
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Posted by: jessenator on 2019-10-20 16:47:53
That's hilarious!
"Great news! We've integrated a 4-voice wavetable synthesis chip into the new Mac II design, Mr Sculley! I think there's some great potential to—"
"Hardware failure."
"I'm sorry?"
"Use it to signal a hardware failure."
"...I mean, we could advertise the—"
"SAD MAC FACE NEED BAD BAD CHIME!"
"...very good, sir."
I don't think John Sculley was like that , but still...
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Posted by: dougg3 on 2019-10-20 16:54:16
BMOW actually used it when he was experimenting with ROM hacking, generating simple startup tones.
Edit: Oh, now I know where it's used! Sad Mac chimes. But that's the only thing I can think of. 😀 I messed a lot with it when I was doing my initial ROM hacking. The startup chime also uses it
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Posted by: olePigeon on 2019-10-20 20:23:46
@dougg3 Oops, I meant you. 😀
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Posted by: EvilCapitalist on 2019-10-21 05:00:45
Wasn't the apprehension (real or imagined) around using the sound hardware to its fullest abilities related to the lawsuit between Apple Corps (the Beatles' label) and Apple Computer?
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Posted by: jessenator on 2019-10-21 05:36:13
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Corps_v_Apple_Computer
Ugh, several lawsuits it seems. :/
Ha. I always wondered why that particular alert noise was named that way. Bummer though. Explains exactly why they avoided ever marketing the Macintosh as a "multimedia computer" could that be why they didn't exploit the IIgs to its fullest as well?
I'm also surprised they didn't double up when Apple bought eMagic and sold Logic, music creation and all that.
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Posted by: Trash80toHP_Mini on 2019-10-21 09:46:51
Thanks for that link, great read. Dunno if Apple advertised it as such, but at its announcement, the mags touted the Quadra 630 and its LC040 offspring as Multimedia Macs.
edit: the MPEG media card was an add-on, not a computer and the TV/Tuner Video Systems were also expansion cards, so that may have gotten around the "sosumi barrier" to litigation as they weren't selling the "computer" as multimedia?.
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Posted by: CC_333 on 2019-10-21 10:36:20
I think that was incredibly litigious and over-reactive on Apple Corps' part.
They could've simply come up with something like, "Hey! We see that you (Apple Computer) are selling a multimedia computer. We don't want any competition, and aren't particularly happy about the name, but maybe we can negotiate some sort of licensing agreement?"
Would that have been *so* hard?? Maybe I'm missing something?
c
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Posted by: jessenator on 2019-10-21 11:24:44
I think it's funny that the licensing thing kinda went sideways for Apple Corps.
The settlement includes terms that are confidential, although newspaper accounts at the time stated that Apple Computer was buying out Apple Corps' trademark rights for a total of $500 million.[12]
Commenting on the settlement, Steve Jobs, Apple's CEO said, "We love the Beatles, and it has been painful being at odds with them over these trademarks. It feels great to resolve this in a positive manner, and in a way that should remove the potential of further disagreements in the future."
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Posted by: trag on 2019-10-21 11:26:50
On a related note, what did adding a PAS16 card to the Macintosh really get you compared to the built-in sound capabilities? The four-input mixer? Anything else?
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Posted by: Gorgonops on 2019-10-21 16:02:50
Out of curiosity I looked up what that "Wavetable" mode does on the ASC, and perhaps I'm missing something but it does seem like it might be a little optimistic to describe it as a full-featured synthesizer in the sense of, say, the Ensoniq 5503 they used in the IIgs.
On a related note, what did adding a PAS16 card to the Macintosh really get you compared to the built-in sound capabilities? The four-input mixer? Anything else? It's my vague recollection that before the Quadras Macs only supported 8-bit samples (and I also think the sampling rate topped out at 22.5khz?), while the PAS 16 supported full 44.1khz@16bit "CD-Quality" sound. The PAS16 also has a Yamaha OPL3 hardware synth chip on it, and a hardware MIDI port. How well contemporary Macs could utilize any of that I have no idea.
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Posted by: Crutch on 2019-10-21 20:49:56
It's my vague recollection that before the Quadras Macs only supported 8-bit samples (and I also think the sampling rate topped out at 22.5khz?), This is correct.
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Posted by: trag on 2019-10-22 10:47:48
This is correct. So did any software use them? I remember purchasing a PAS16 way back when because it was very cheap. It came with a free copy of "Out of This World" which claimed it would make use of the PAS16 if present. The sale was so good, it was actually a pretty good way to get the game...
I don't recall being able to tell any meaningful difference in the game's sound, though.
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Posted by: jessenator on 2019-10-28 17:10:04
olepigeon I saw your cross post about MusicWorks.
My friend's 128k ran it just fine, so if the 128k arch didnt have that synthesis chip, might be safe to say MusicWorks didnt utilize it. I haven't gotten to use it on anything newer than a Plus yet, but it sounded the same running on each.
Maybe related?
There was also the orchestra program 65scribe demoed in one of his videos that let you draw the waveform of the instrument(s?). I think i was his 512k video.
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Posted by: nglevin on 2019-11-06 10:09:54
There was also the orchestra program 65scribe demoed in one of his videos that let you draw the waveform of the instrument(s?). I think i was his 512k video. ConcertWare+, which he identifies towards the end of his latest video (Macintosh ... corrections).
At first I thought it was a Steve Capps music app, but no, turns out it's a full synthLAB equivalent with music notation that still mostly runs fine on System 6. Neat!
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Posted by: LaPorta on 2019-11-06 10:40:03
Don't forget: the Apple Corps lawsuit is where we got the name for the immortal "Sosumi" sound.
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Posted by: jimjimx on 2019-11-07 05:11:39
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Corps_v_Apple_Computer
Ugh, several lawsuits it seems. :/
Ha. I always wondered why that particular alert noise was named that way. Bummer though. Explains exactly why they avoided ever marketing the Macintosh as a "multimedia computer" could that be why they didn't exploit the IIgs to its fullest as well?
I'm also surprised they didn't double up when Apple bought eMagic and sold Logic, music creation and all that. I always hated that the Beatles sued Apple, and thought it was stupid.
Nobody went to the store and said “I want to buy one of those Beatles computers. It must be a Beatles computer because there’s an Apple on it”.
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