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| Is there a functional difference between an Apple IIGS keyboard and a 'normal' ADB keyboard? |
Posted by: Huxley on 2019-10-08 08:16:52
I've got an Apple IIGS which I love, and I've got a significant stockpile of Apple Extended Keyboard II's. However, I find that the IIGS doesn't like to reboot when the "three finger salute" is pressed on any of the AEKII's - something about the timing of it is really finicky and weird, and 9/10 times it just drops to the ROM Monitor rather than rebooting the machine... but sometimes it works fine. Very odd. Given this, I'm suddenly wondering if there's an actual functional difference between a "real" Apple IIGS keyboard (the keyboard the IIGS would've shipped with) and other ADB keyboards. Can anyone confirm either way?
Thanks!
Huxley
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Posted by: Cory5412 on 2019-10-08 17:02:18
On a Mac: no.
On a IIgs: If I remember correctly, the ROM03 should work fine with any other ADB keyboard, but the ROM01 has some problems with, and I am fuzzy on the details, extended keyboards. I hear about it most often with AppleDesign keyboards, because those show up in droves at KansasFest.
I think that the shorter ADB Keyboard and ADB Keyboard II work well, though.
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Posted by: NJRoadfan on 2019-11-08 10:28:50
The ROM 01 doesn't support the Apple Adjustable Keyboard due to ADB protocol changes, which the ROM 3 supports with newer hardware. Everything else has been tested to work. If using a IIgs keyboard on a newer Mac, just note that it doesn't support soft power-on using the reset button.
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Posted by: olePigeon on 2019-11-08 10:43:13
@NJRoadfan I use an ISO IIgs keyboard on my IIci and it powers on via the power button. Maybe it's different? Or maybe the IIci is different? Or maybe it's not a IIgs keyboard? Sure looks like one.
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Posted by: Cory5412 on 2019-11-08 12:03:35
All my Macs with soft power (8600, beige g3, 840av, for example) work fine powering on via the IIgs keyboard's reset/power button.
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Posted by: Crutch on 2019-11-08 19:56:09
I use a IIgs keyboard with my SE/30 with soft power from the IIgs keyboard’s power key via a PowerKey Pro. It also works fine. I’m not sure I understand why it wouldn’t work on a “newer” Mac?
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Posted by: olePigeon on 2019-12-02 10:10:56
Maybe it doesn't work on a PowerPC or newer Mac.
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Posted by: LaPorta on 2019-12-02 10:41:43
There shouldn't be. However, could it be that the command (or Apple) keys are mapped differently? As in, on the rest of the Apple II line, there is an open Apple and closed Apple. IIe would restart with Control-Open Apple-Reset. Have you tried the command keys on both sides of the board?
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Posted by: Dog Cow on 2019-12-02 11:46:15
As in, on the rest of the Apple II line, there is an open Apple and closed Apple. IIe would restart with Control-Open Apple-Reset. Option key on the ADB keyboard is same as Closed Apple on the IIe keyboard. Both Command Keys, which are Open Apple equivalent, should function identically.
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Posted by: LaPorta on 2019-12-02 11:52:04
Are they mapped the same? I know some keyboards map left and right Shift as the same key, and some map them as individual keys. Just throwing it out there, I really don't know.
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Posted by: Cory5412 on 2019-12-05 10:43:40
Maybe it doesn't work on a PowerPC or newer Mac. My IIgs keyboard works perfectly on my 6100, 8600, and beige g3. It works perfectly fine on all of those machines as well as all the 68ks I've used.
However, could it be that the command (or Apple) keys are mapped differently? Everything on the IIgs ADB keyboard is labeled the same as it is on later Apple ADB keyboards and all functionality works exactly as labeled.
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Posted by: LaPorta on 2019-12-05 11:40:05
In that case...not sure!
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Posted by: Gorgonops on 2019-12-05 12:00:58
On a IIgs: If I remember correctly, the ROM03 should work fine with any other ADB keyboard, but the ROM01 has some problems with, and I am fuzzy on the details, extended keyboards. I hear about it most often with AppleDesign keyboards, because those show up in droves at KansasFest. I was using an AppleDesign keyboard with my IIgs last I played with it and I didn't notice any issues that affect functionality, although I do vaguely recall another minor issue with later keyboards and the IIgs (ROM1 at least) is some issue with the caps/num lock indicator lights?
Technically if you dig into the most arcane parts of the IIgs technical reference and the Mac II-generation hardware documentation (IE, later editions of Inside Macintosh) there are a few *very minor* places where the ADB spec was changed (or, perhaps more accurately, more fully defined) between the first editions of the IIgs and how it was implemented on the Mac. (Some of the signal time intervals which were open to interpretation on the IIgs were more fully specified.) It's *possible*, I suppose, that your particular IIgs' keyboard/ADB controller is "sloppy", or at least sloppier than average. There are known issues with the ADB controllers on some IIgs motherboards, some of which might not necessarily manifest in a complete failure.
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Posted by: NJRoadfan on 2019-12-06 04:58:58
The AppleDesign keyboards work fine. As mentioned earlier, the Apple Adjustable Keyboard is the troublesome one of the bunch.
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Posted by: SE30_Neal on 2019-12-16 14:54:53
I couldn’t get an extended keyboard to work on my se/30 yet it worked fine on my 5200 & 6500 machines. I know that isn’t an exact match to your apple II Query but though mentioning
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