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*IDE Zip on Apple's BORKED IDE implementation . . .**
Posted by: Trash80toHP_Mini on 2012-11-25 10:38:47 . . . I never thought this could possibly work, but I've found a caveat mentioned about it . . . . . . but, first of all: Props to MinerAl for being the first one I've ever heard of to do the FDD_Slot->ZipSpitterHack! :approve: I have to disagree with you here, Al, this is about the least nerdy thing I can think of to do with a computer. Most especially so when starting something as intentionally lamed as a stock CC. In the Color Classic CRT replacement thread: The only reason I'm considering it is nostalgia for the nerdiest thing I've ever done. When you follow that link: If you have an IDE-based Zip that you wish to install in a Takky, keep in mind that you can have only one IDE device, so you will need to use a SCSI hard disk. I just made a run at a quick test of concept, no joy in HackVille. 😛 Configuration: CPU: Performa 6290/CD - boots to 8.1 on the IDE HDD without any problems whatsoever Boot Drive: OS 8.5 CD - Retail package, no problems whatsoever Driver: Iomega Guest 5.1 on floppy - no problems running it at all Zip Drive: NEC internal IDE Zip Drive - untested as yet, but it's a clearance item from a very reputable retail source Error message - No Zip Drives available . . . 😛 I'll be testing the NEC Zip ASAP, meanwhile, any suggestions? :?: Edit: with the current availability of server grade SCSI drives of massive capacity, the IDE KLUGE Apple came up with is no longer required as the fabulous expansion feature it was for the Quadra_630 and its multitude of DrawerMa offspring. [}🙂] ]'>
Posted by: Macdrone on 2012-11-25 11:41:52 Internal IDE Zip drives have jumper settings. Maybe try changing the settings.
Posted by: Trash80toHP_Mini on 2012-11-26 04:37:23 Yeah, the jumpers were going to be my next test after determining that the Zip Drive was functional, but I ran through the settings on an Apple branded Iomega Drive first. Still no joy in Mudville. Tested settings: ::\| _____ Master :\|: _____ Slave (Factory Setting)) _____this was the setup for it when I started \|:: _____ Cable Select __________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ ::: _____ Unlisted on Apple Zip Drive #1 ___ Slave A (Factory Setting) on Appel Drive #2_____ existing setup for Apple Drive #1 All were unsuccessful (giving the same "no drives present " error when running iomega Guest 5.1 booted under the 8.5 CD as noted above The NEC drive has two additional settings to try, as does identically diagrammed Zip Drive #2 from the Beige G3. But all three drives will be tested in every possible configuration! [}🙂] ]'> :\|\| _____ Master A \|\|: _____ Cable Select A I'm hoping that Master A will match the setup on the HDD setting, but I haven't checked yet It's not much hope, but there's some,. I'm beginning to think that Chris never tested an IDE Zip Drive and tossed in the caveat as a matter of course, making it a *Red Herring* that instigated this experiment.
Posted by: Macdrone on 2012-11-26 07:46:51 I don't think the zip will work like that personally. I have not tried but just the idea of needing hard disk toolkit on non apple drives back then it just seems like its not set up to be a master even tho it has the setting (built for pc's type of thing). I was never able to get the G3 Mac to boot off a IDE zip, but I didn't mess too much with it. Was a long time ago when I was messing with tech tool and trying to max out jumper settings for processor speed.
Posted by: Trash80toHP_Mini on 2012-11-26 09:26:52 My Beige G3 came with the IDE Zip/Bezel kit installed, that's actually why I bought it. I wanted to Max out the uprighted MetalMinitowerTower7600. I was expecting it to have a SCSI Zip, so the IDE Zip Drive was not quite as nice a find as I'd hoped. I wound up canning the 7600 Project by replacing it with the the MetalMiniTowerG3. Hrunkner Underhill sucked the MoBo out of the 7600's carcass and burped up his Q700 MoBo, so that's going well and I have a spare for Elmo. Shelob ate a 7100 about ten years ago. ISTR the caveat about Apple's IDE Kluge only supporting HDDs, DEFINITELY no ATAPI support. I'm not really expecting Zip Support, but that's where IDE Cards come into their own in the DrarwMa Hacks. [😉] ]'> Still have to run it through by the numbers, though. Maybe another OS/driver combo will work, dunno . . . . . . *Damn the (Apple) Torpedoes! Full speed ahead!* [}🙂] ]'> < /Farragut mode > < . . . idly wonders if that ^%$#%@$% KLUGE will support . . . >
Posted by: olePigeon on 2012-11-26 16:59:57 Anyone else notice that Cable Select has never worked in the history of IDE?
Posted by: Trash80toHP_Mini on 2012-11-26 18:40:07 What the heck was it with Apple and industry standard interface implementations? They'd have been hard pressed to have done SCSI any worse unless they'd have made it single device limited. It's totally out of spec and slow as molasses compared to real SCSI implementations from the era. Has anyone, *ever* done a single device implementation of IDE, much less borking the spec so badly that it can only address an HDD . . . . . . I mean . . . really, when did they, if ever, finally get with the program?!?!!!! Needless to say, this has been a very aggravating exercise in futility. Neither the NEC Zip Drive nor the Apple branded iomega Zip Drive from the Beige G3 worked in either Master A or Cable Select A modes. I'm throwing in the towel on this one. Unless someone who's followed the CC Diaries or has seen this done elsewhere chimes in with a suggestion, this thread is as dead as the other side of Apple's IDE implementation for the Quadra 630 and family. The side they hacked, patched and kluged for the HDD is among the living dead . . . :🙂
Posted by: MinerAl on 2012-11-26 19:06:40 Yeah, sorry. Chris threw that article on the CCFAQ pretty immediately after I sent it to him (or posted it on the CC forums at AppleFritter, or however he got it) , so I doubt he tried an IDE Zip100 before adding his editor's note. Do you have any newer boards that might fit in? The 63x0, 5x00, and 4400 boards should all be plug-n-play with it. Might get something with a better IDE implementation from a later board.
Posted by: Trash80toHP_Mini on 2012-11-26 19:28:32 Gossamer and Alchemy? I've got 'em by the armful (slight exaggeration) for my hacks. I'll try a 6500 board, but it likely won't work either. I don't think they got IDE even close to workable for the until the PB1400/3400 (NuBus/PCI Architectures respectively) rollout. Did the MO Drive work on all 5300s? I'm assuming it was ATAPI here. Is that the same as the little CD Drive for the 5300? I'm posting 10" VGA giblets piccies ATM, BTW. [😉] ]'>
Posted by: Bunsen on 2012-11-26 22:28:40 Try this: Format a ZIP as an HFS/HFS+ volume on another Mac. Start up without the Iomega driver, and with the ZIP in the drive.
Posted by: MinerAl on 2012-11-28 13:52:51 Do you have any newer boards that might fit in? The 63x0, 5x00, and 4400 boards should all be plug-n-play with it. Might get something with a better IDE implementation from a later board. I meant 6400 not 4400. 4400 boards would definitely not work. Brain fardt. Sorry.
Posted by: theos911 on 2012-11-28 17:07:50 I agree with Bunsen. My 190 does the same thing; it won't see the drive unless it boots with a formatted disk in it.
Posted by: Trash80toHP_Mini on 2012-11-28 18:35:57 Interesting behavior! Have you got an internal IDE Zip Drive in your 190, theo?
Posted by: theos911 on 2012-11-28 19:09:00 No, I'm using the one that replaces the floppy drive. I was pretty glad I bought it once I discovered the dead SCSI port.
Posted by: Trash80toHP_Mini on 2012-11-28 19:43:50 That's actually what my sleep-deprived brain meant. "Internal" referring to the PB FDD form factor replacement (internal) Zip Drive, as opposed to 3.5" internal desktop form factor Zip Drive of either interface flavor. Looks like Apple got IDE working earlier than I'd thought if that Zip drive is the same as the later 5300/1400/3400 series IDE Zips.
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