68kMLA Classic Interface
This is a version of the 68kMLA forums for viewing on your favorite old mac. Visitors on modern platforms may prefer the main site.
| Click here to select a new forum. | |
| Macinstosh SE 6400 | |
| Posted by: highlandcattle on 2011-10-18 12:00:14 I have a SE with a borked mobo and a 6400 with half a tower. I would love to combine the two but could use some pointers. How do I connect the motherboard to the SE monitor for example. Tips and tricks are welcome! | |
| Posted by: Bunsen on 2011-10-19 04:17:12 Fate helps those who help themselves. | |
| Posted by: highlandcattle on 2011-10-19 08:37:38 Already did that even with google not much help.But thanks for your insightfull tip! | |
| Posted by: Bunsen on 2011-10-21 03:10:04 Heh, sorry, bad mood last night 🙂 Here's something more helpful: (NB, 6360 and 6400 motherboards are interchangeable) viewtopic.php?f=29&t=12737 | |
| Posted by: Bunsen on 2011-10-21 03:22:29 This is the most relevant bit: I've completed the most difficult portion of the hack! / install a 6360/6500 MoBo / in an actual Classic . . . | |
| Posted by: Bunsen on 2011-10-21 04:53:51 More pics:       IMO, if you use the low-profile single PCI right angle riser from a 54/5500 (or indeed, no PCI riser or cards), you should be able to fit it in there without doing Trash80's more complex "sub-basement" hack (ie, the hard drive case bolted to the bottom). | |
Posted by: Bunsen on 2011-10-21 05:01:15How do I connect the motherboard to the SE monitor for example.Ah ... well, that's a whole different kettle of potatoes. Short answer? You don't. You find an 8" - 9" 4:3 VGA (or better) CRT (or LCD) that fits in the shell and work with that. Long answer? It *might* just be possible, but I'm afraid I'll have to redirect your attention to Messrs Search and Google. It'll take a reasonable amount of research, and hackery, and I don't at this moment understand it well enough to give you a definite yea or nay. If the 6400 is capable of outputting 512 x 384 ... that would be a promising start. | |
| Posted by: highlandcattle on 2011-10-21 12:35:18 Thanks, I do want the original case to be intact i'll modify the mother board.Good tip about the resolution! I'll check that first. | |
| Posted by: Trash80toHP_Mini on 2011-10-21 14:55:28 I'd be more interested in seeing if the original CRT could be pushed to do Grayscale along the lines of the SE/30 hacks (poor man's grayscale?) from the 6400's output and the equivalent of the Enhance "Liberty" adapter, which does have a setting for 512 x 384. I don't recall the Q630-P6500 series ever having any problem the lower screen resolution settings on my favorite adapters, support for higher and higher resolutions and color depths became available as the series progressed. Interesting project, I'm glad to see B making up for his sharp retort, his motto is: search, search, search, which is great advice, as many of the hack questions that come up have akready been addressed here in the past . . . . . . pointing out a couple of terms or a link to start your search in his reply would have been nice . . . . . . but, now I don't have to dredge up, and repackage, my overly complex version of your hack. }🙂 [😀] ]'> Using a tiny ATX PSU underneath the MoBo to power it, along with the analog board for the CRT within the confines of a stock SE case makes for an interesting hack. I'm not home for a few days, but I'll check some of the parameters in a few days. 1) You might need to angle the MoBo down a bit toward the SE's I/O ports if you're dead set against changes to your SE's case. 2) The width of the 6400 Mobo may be problematic, in terms of retaining the SE's original Analog Board to power the CRT. 3) I can't see a huge problem in adapting the 6400's video output to drive the 9" CRT and the cable connector is very handy. . . . but I've been known to underestimate technical complexities. :🙂 Very interesting, in fact, I've recently pulled my project off the shelf in order to take a break from the SuperIIsi nonsense for a bit! | |
| Posted by: Scott Baret on 2011-10-23 20:03:21 I know for a fact the 6400 can output at 512 x 384, as I once connected one to a 12" RGB (aka LC Monitor). However, the CRT of the compact Macs has a resolution of 512 x 342. I feel your best bet would be to find a small CRT to transplant. I seem to remember a thread from some time ago about tiny CRT monitors, so I'm going to follow Bunsen's example and recommend a search or two for that. | |
Posted by: Bunsen on 2011-10-24 10:58:11the 6400 can output at 512 x 384 / However, the CRT of the compact Macs has a resolution of 512 x 342.Quite so, my bad. Technically, the Cathode Ray Tube itself has no specific resolution. It's the analog board and driver circuitry that sets it. In *theory* you could drive the tube at near any resolution - if you're up for designing and building your own high-voltage, high-frequency, precisely tuned electromagnetic tube driver... Part of the reason I advised - and still advise - extensive searching and reading, is that this is *not even remotely* a simple plug-A-into-B hack. It's not something I would recommend unless you know what you're getting yourself into (I mentioned the high voltage, right?) - and not knowing the relevant search terms to bring up what you're looking for is not a promising start. For example, no-one's even mentioned refresh rates, sync rates, or video and sync signal polarity yet. Sync is your biggest issue, IMO. I would suggest starting with the comments I left on the very first, stickied, post ("What this forum is about") in the resurrected Hacks forum, where I dropped in a list of useful existing threads. Also, search term: eviltim I'd be more interested in seeing if the original CRT could be pushed to do Grayscale along the lines of the SE/30 hacks (poor man's grayscale?)Oy vey. The original attempt at the PMGS involved transplanting the analog board and deflection coils from another monitor onto the SE's tube. Even he ended up using a complete substitute monitor in the end. It's back up, btw, as part of the resurrected Power Color Classic pages. Sync and rez aside (*snerk*), it's possible to get grays from a mono monitor by hijacking the brightness knob's PCB points - as eviltim/viletim demonstrated on one of his RGB monitor hacks. Space wise, an LCD would free up a metric shed-load... | |
| Posted by: Bunsen on 2011-10-24 11:06:03 Shorter: it proooobably maybe could be done, but it's an engineering challenge, not a mere hack. One would really need to know what one is doing. | |
| Posted by: highlandcattle on 2011-10-24 12:19:07 I'm guesssing this will outside of my league 🙁 I was hoping to simply connect the motherboard to the internal motherboard and then desoldering the ports and add wires so they could match up with the SE ports. | |
| Posted by: Bunsen on 2011-10-25 09:51:34 Be not downheartened, comrade! Back-shelf it for a while, keep on reading, searching, pondering. I've got hack ideas going back five-ten years that I'm just *now* getting a handle on how to attack. Consider other projects for your parts, too. Keep an open mind. Cheap 9" VGA CRTs are not wholly unobtainium, and brand new LCDs start around $100. Video aside, the rest is just jamming it all in there somewhere. | |
Posted by: Trash80toHP_Mini on 2011-10-25 11:08:51I was hoping to simply connect the motherboard to the internal motherboard and then desoldering the ports and add wires so they could match up with the SE ports.To keep the hack within the realm of possibility: 00) do your mod in reversible, if somewhat over the top, steps 01) make your wires long enough to slide the Shell back about 6-12" 02) mount all your extra ports through the SE's Expansion Slot Opening and an extra battery cover 03) definitely use a single slot riser for a USB/Firewire Card 04) mount the PSU (6360 or ATXhack) vertically on the back of the shell & rewire the AC to the original SE Connector 05) hack the shell so it slides back said 6" without much effort 06) use an external monitor at 640x480 for Tuner Card Output set up right next to the SE/6400 07) add a shallow MacQuarium with a single Siamese Fighting Fish to replace the CRT for the nonce 08) slide shell back to feed your fish and lift the tank out for maintenance. 09) mount your filter, aeration device next to the PSU on the back wall 10) fab a catch-basin to surround ALL the MacQuarium parts in case of leakage 10) mount a tiny WebCam w/closeup lens to the backside of the "catchbasin" 11) feed the output of the WebCAM to the Video Card 12) output the rear view image of the MacQuarium's Siamese Denizen to "spanned" monitor 13) along with the face of anybody staring into the SE/6400! In doing so, you'll have a fully functional SE/6400/MacQuarium with modern I/O, FDD and (second) Monitor! [😀] ]'> You'll not have modified ANY of the SE's external parts and your CRT/Analog Board will be safely stored away until you source a GrayScale CRT or LCD! You'll have lots of time to consider options while having done a really cool hack already . . . . . . one which may satisfy you in itself! }🙂 p.s. hacking your wiring to an EdgeCard Connector/Slot PCB set for your wiring harness makes things MUCH easier & gains bonus 😎 points! edit: Now I'm tempted to do this friggin' WhackHack! :🙂 | |
Posted by: Bunsen on 2011-10-26 07:47:10To keep the hack within the realm of possibility:00, 01, 03, 05 good advice or suggestion 02, 04 that's one way of doing it, sure ... 05 o...kay 😵 06) use an external monitor at 640x480 for Tuner Card OutputDon't confuse things, please, jt. The TV card's output is S-Video or composite, and any old TV will do fine for that. There's only one monitor output on a 6400, barring a PCI video card. 07) Fish... oy. Forget I said anything .. Now I'm tempted to do this friggin' WhackHack! :🙂yeah ... You do that. Meanwhile, let's try and keep things here a tad simpler, mkay? | |
| Posted by: Bunsen on 2011-10-26 07:55:31 I do like the *general* idea, which I would sum up as: Don't worry about the video hacking for now. Just use an external monitor. Pull the analog board and CRT, store safely, use the space in the case for ... whatever. Or not. | |
Posted by: Trash80toHP_Mini on 2011-10-26 08:13:18That's the simple part, the Video Card's Output is pixel doubled 320 x 240 to the Computer's Monitor.06) use an external monitor at 640x480 for Tuner Card OutputDon't confuse things, please, jt. The TV card's -out-put is S-Video or composite, and any old TV will do fine for that. There's only one -monitor- out on a 6400, barring a PCI video card.Correction, those would be the Inputs. The suggestion of an SE/6400/MacQuarium is a bit over the top, but it makes for a great display piece that's actually useful until the necessary CRT or LCD is sourced and the MacQuarium could be dialed back to a MacTerrarium hack to keep things simple.07) Fish... oy. Forget I said anything .. mkay 😛Now I'm tempted to do this friggin' WhackHack! :🙂yeah ... You do that. Meanwhile, let's try and keep things here a tad simpler, mkay? edit: I see we're posting simultaneously again . . . and on opposite sides of the same page again! [😉] ]'> | |
| Posted by: Bunsen on 2011-10-26 08:45:23 The page I'm on is this: highlandcattle has already said he feels this is out of his depth, so I'm looking for ways to make this simpler - both the hack and the explanations. Skipping the video hacking is a good idea in that regard. Fishtank, not so much. | |
| 1 > |
