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| AppleTalk Internet Router |
Posted by: raoulduke on 2015-06-29 18:22:40
I am trying to create a LocalTalk to ethernet bridge (or something) with ethernet to my PM 7100 and localtalk to an SE. The end goal is to use the internet on the SE (just more or less for a photo-op). I have weird problems (https://68kmla.org/forums/index.php?/topic/25695-simple-localtalk-network/?p=272974) with the interaction of MacTCP and AppleShare it would seem. Possibly related (I don't know) LocalTalk Bridge 2.1 does not seem to work.
AppleTalk Internet Router was brought to my attention and I am looking for a version - probably 2.0 - although it's really hard to find specs on any of the versions. I have been unable to find a version online.
I don't really know what kind of a response is appropriate here given recent discussions of policy and copyright. So I suppose if you are aware of a copy would you please send me a private message? Appreciate it.
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Posted by: Elfen on 2015-06-29 18:47:38
It's a hard package to get. I have in a beaten up box, but it comes with a loose leaf binder with about 200 pages of "how to do it" and 3 floppy disks. The bottom of the box has a an ID Sticker of "M0502Z/B"
The full title is:
"Apple Internet Router
Basic Connectivity Package"
It is the package to create Apple Zone networks and connect various networks together with a Mac like an Ethernet network to a LocalTalk network with a Mac that has both.
(This is funny, copied from the back of the box)
• System Requirements:
• A Macintosh Plus computer or later with at least 4 megabytes of memory (PowerBook Computers not recommended)
• System Software 7.0 or later.
• Dial-up connections requires V3.2/9600-bps or higher speed modem
• Works on AppleTalk Phase 2 networks only
The funny part is the Mac Plus. Unless it is using both modem and printer ports for connecting 2 LocalTalk networks together, I do not know a Mac Plus with Ethernet.
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Posted by: raoulduke on 2015-06-29 18:50:18
Apple also says maybe another version came in "AppleTalk Internet Router Administrator's Guide." Got no explanation for the Plus; that's a fair point.
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Posted by: Elfen on 2015-06-29 19:30:27
That's the 200 page loose leaf notebook binder. I just look at the pretty pictures as it shows what to do as the text explains it - what menus to open and what selections to make based on what you need.
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Posted by: raoulduke on 2015-06-29 20:45:07
These came out on 2HD floppies, right? I think they were released at the latest by 1990 (or some version was)?
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Posted by: jhorvath911 on 2015-06-29 20:48:46
I set this up without having the apple Internet software by using locatalk bridge and Also a commercial program called ipnetrouter. Setup was a little troublesome but once it was working I had TCP/IP over LocalTalk no problem.
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Posted by: raoulduke on 2015-06-29 20:55:52
Cool. I will seek out ipnetrouter. Thank you. There's a problem with MacTCP and AppleShare simultaneously working on the SE... I don't have an explanation. But the server does not show up in Chooser if MacTCP is in the System folder and does when it is not. So I'm not sure if MacTCP is working properly. I tried LocalTalk Bridge, which hasn't been working (at least with configuring the 7100 as the Gateway etc and choosing a random IP (192.168.1.240) - Elfen was trying to help me with this). So I'm looking for something other than LocalTalk bridge, but that may not be the issue.
That notwithstanding, now I'm kind of interested in acquiring a copy of this fabled software, though.
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Posted by: jhorvath911 on 2015-06-29 21:11:48
I also remember that I had trouble getting everything working until I updated my mactcp on the older computer, the version that came with is 7 just was not working but somewhere I found update for just the mactcp.
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Posted by: raoulduke on 2015-06-29 21:12:49
(I'm working on 6.0.8 - 1mb SE with an 800k drive!) Also can't find the program you mentioned on first pass. But do you recall if the version that worked for you was 1.4.5? I'm using 1.4.4 - for some reason had a lot of trouble getting the former to unstuff (I think).
(Actually those are the NSI versions...)
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Posted by: mactjaap on 2015-06-29 22:08:05
Why don't you try my MacIPgw? A very simple virtual machine with a complete router on board. Just start it and use the correct IP address.
Read all about it:
http://www.macip.net
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Posted by: raoulduke on 2015-06-29 22:34:35
I will let you know why or why not! (Dankjewel)
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Posted by: raoulduke on 2015-06-30 00:11:10
Wait MacIPgw is only a virtual machine... I missed that. I'm trying to make a LocalTalk to ethernet bridge. I can't connect my Mac SE to my desktop.
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Posted by: NJRoadfan on 2015-06-30 04:12:35
Zap the PRAM on the 7100, that fixes most Appletalk related problems. Use Localtalk Bridge on the 7100 (set Appletalk to the Printer Port) to route packets between the Localtalk and Ethernet segments. MacIPgw takes care of the TCP/IP routing/encapsulation. Note, you may need to set a static route on your router in order for it to work correctly.
For those wondering, the Appletalk Internet Router package has nothing to do with TCP/IP or MacIP.
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Posted by: galgot on 2015-06-30 04:14:36
I've never managed to make Appletalk internet Router work, think there was incompatibilities with my systems.
IPNetRouter works fine.
There's also Vicomsoft SoftRouter, runs very well.
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Posted by: NJRoadfan on 2015-06-30 05:25:37
https://support.apple.com/kb/TA40073?locale=en_US&viewlocale=en_US
Q. Does the AppleTalk Internet Router support TCP/IP or DECnet routing?
A. No. The AppleTalk Internet Router supports routing of AppleTalk
protocols only. It can be run in parallel with a second non-Apple router
that supports other network protocols.
Basically it allows routing between different Appletalk zones and not much else.
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Posted by: galgot on 2015-06-30 05:53:30
So that's why 😀 .
It works just like LocalTalk bridge then, only with more options ?
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Posted by: NJRoadfan on 2015-06-30 07:29:26
Yes, pretty much. It was made obsolete when network hardware vendors like Cisco started adding Appletalk support to their routers. Those were cheaper than a Mac II with a stack of Nubus Ethernet cards and this software.
BTW, here is Apple's instructions for using the Localtalk Bridge control panel: https://support.apple.com/kb/TA33531?locale=en_US&viewlocale=en_US
Looks like Appletalk needs to be set to "Ethernet" in order for Localtalk Bridge to work.
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Posted by: raoulduke on 2015-06-30 12:55:22
I just flashed the PRAM doesn't seem to have helped. IPNetMonitor showed that (prior to flashing the PRAM) the 7100 receives Appletalk-based requests from the SE but wasn't sending anything out.
It gets a little worse. Now the AppleShare server does not show up at all again - either through the serial cable or through the localtalk cable/adapters. It's not really workable to keep installing System 6 every time this happens.
(I also have AppleTalk Internet Router now, btw.)
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Posted by: beachycove on 2015-06-30 15:51:53
Apple IP Gateway will also run alongside Apple Internet Router, and route AT packets over IP networks. The two products were contemporary.
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