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| IIfx and Turbo601 66Mhz: what do you think? |
Posted by: Byrd on 2010-07-27 05:17:21
Hi,
as recently posted in the Conquests section, I recently scored a Daystar Turbo601 66Mhz. I'd love to try it out, but I don't own a IIci. I could try it in my IIsi, but don't have a compatible monitor handy (and in addition the Turbo601 appears to stress the meagre power supply - but I do have the requisite Daystar adapter card).
So the card fits nicely in the PDS slot of the IIfx. It runs at 20Mhz, the same as a IIsi. Searches have revealed the Turbo601 doesn't work in an SE/30 of any configuration, but one member reported a "PowerPC chime" with it installed, and not getting any further (and assuming this is with a IIfx ROM, and in the base PDS slot).
More research reveals the IIfx PDS slot shares the same pinout as the SE/30, but this differs from the IIci:
http://support.apple.com/kb/TA43788?viewlocale=en_US
... is the IIci cache/PDS slot significantly different over the IIfx, SE/30 or IIsi? Are Daystar cards engineered to work in either/or type of PDS slot?
... what does the "Daystar adapter" (eg. for PowerCache, Turbo040 accelerators) alter to work in other PDS-equipped motherboards? Interesting link here:
http://www.mail-archive.com/compact.macs@mail.maclaunch.com/msg11796.html
... will magic smoke be released if I turn the IIfx on with the Turbo601, or nothing much will happen?
Thanks all
JB
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Posted by: trag on 2010-07-27 10:05:35
IIRC, the IIfx PDS slot is supposed to be equivalent to a IIsi or SE/30, so if you try the Turbo601 in there, do it with the IIsi adapter card in between. And still be prepared for magic smoke.
The IIci cache slot is different from the IIsi and SE/30, so don't try a Daystar upgrade in the IIsi or the SE/30 without an adapter card in place.
To really understand the differences get a copy of "The Guide to the Macintosh Family Hardware". It lists the pinouts for the various PDS slots in the Mac II family. That would tell you exactly how the PDS slot differ.
I still wouldn't expect the IIfx to work with a Daystar upgrade. The IIfx PDS slot isn't exactly a direct to processor slot and the Daystar upgrades definitely need very direct access to the host CPU.
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Posted by: Byrd on 2010-07-28 19:04:52
Thanks as always for your input, trag - much appreciated. Needless to say, I wasn't going to to fire up the IIfx with the Turbo 601 perched in the PDS slot, but intend to look into the IIci and SE/30/IIfx/IIsi slot differences - from what I've read, the pinouts are only slightly altered.
In the mean time, looks like I'll be souping up my IIsi with the Turbo 601, kind of like putting a V12 into a VW Beetle 😛 It has a Daystar Powercache card in there at the moment (40Mhz, no FPU), so am fairly sure the Daystar adapter it comes with should work OK with this card.
JB
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Posted by: Unknown_K on 2010-07-28 19:57:17
I would rather have a 68030/40 in a IIsi then a PPC. I have a bunch of 040 PDS cards but no 030 ones.
I don't have the cover off of my IIfx or my Tokamac card handy, but I think the IIfx PDS slot is physically longer then the one in a IIci.
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Posted by: Strimkind on 2010-07-29 07:11:45
LEM states that there are only 040 accelerators for the IIfx so more than likely that if you connect it into the IIfx PDS slot it will kill it.
Discontinued accelerators (all are 68040) include the Applied Engineering TransWarp (25, 33 MHz 68040), Fusion Data TokaMac FX (33 MHz 68040), and Radius Rocket (25 MHz 68LC040 to 40 MHz 68040). |
Posted by: trag on 2010-07-29 12:03:13
I had a Turbo601 in my IIci for a few years. I wrote the article over on Marc Schrier's site about converting the Turbo601/66 into a Turbo601/100 (really more like 94 or 96).
It was cool that Daystar could make it work, but it was a pain. There were many compatibility issues to keep track of and operational idiosyncrasies which one could work around, but one had to *remember* how to work around them.
Ultimately, I decided that I like the Turbo040 in the IIci much more and sold the Turbo601. In this day and age where you can get a NuBus PowerMac nearly for free if you can still find one, I don't think it makes much performance sense to use the Turbo601.
However, it is a very interesting piece of technology and it is fun to play around with and see what it can do. If Brinnoven's (not sure I got hte spelling right) site on the Turbo601 is still up, it is definitely worth a read. Many compatibility issues were raised and solutions reported on that page.
Oh, almost forgot. You are correct. The difference between the IIci PDS slot and the IIsi & SE/30 slots is not much. But it is enough to make the difference between working and not working. I'm not sure if it would necessarily be destructive to install the card in the wrong slot, or in the IIfx, but one should be prepared for that possibility if one tries it.
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Posted by: Unknown_K on 2010-07-29 12:17:59
The only reason I keep Turbo601's around is for Nubus AVID setups (Quadra 950's). You need 4 slots for the cards and 9150's are very rare and Nubus expansion boxes are even more rare.
Even if a PPC would work in a IIfx why jump from the top of the line 030 to a bottom of the line PPC setup? The RAM limitations and very slow SCSI bus (compared to any other PPC) would make the setup unusable.
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Posted by: Byrd on 2010-07-29 16:34:30
Unknown_K: so this card would work in a 950? That's the only other nubus Mac I have to try it in, notably it's a WGS with Pisces card, so I couldn't see it staying there of course.
Needless to say, I appreciate that putting this card in a reasonably-equipped '030 Mac won't make it a powerhouse, but I'm keen to put it to some use, of sorts 😛
JB
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Posted by: Unknown_K on 2010-07-29 17:35:59
There are 030 PDS and 040 PDS versions of the Daystar PPC card, 040 being the most common.
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Posted by: trag on 2010-07-30 10:14:10
There are 030 PDS and 040 PDS versions of the Daystar PPC card, 040 being the most common. In other words, no.
The Turbo601 for the Quadras, which I'm pretty sure wasn't called a Turbo601, needed a different connector because the PDS/cache slot on the Quadras was different from the connector on the IIci. It probably needed different circuitry and firmware as well, but they definitely have a readically different connector.
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Posted by: Bunsen on 2010-08-01 03:41:07
http://macfaq.org/hardware/cards.shtml#Q2.6.2 |
Posted by: trag on 2010-08-02 13:38:08
Sigh.
Three posts ago, when I wrote, "The Guide to the Macintosh Family Hardware", I might have meant, "Designing Cards and Drivers for the Macintosh". I actually don't know for certain. The information in the two books has run together in my brain and I am uncertain what came from which any more.
I *know* the latter would have the information. It *might* also be available in the former.
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Posted by: Bunsen on 2010-08-03 11:25:44
"Designing Cards and Drivers for the Macintosh" I have that, 3rd edition. What exactly needs confirming?
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Posted by: trag on 2010-08-04 13:18:36
I had referred someone to the TGTTMFH for the difference between the IIci cache slot and the IIsi & SE/30 PDS slots. I believe that DCADFTM is actually a better reference for that information.
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Posted by: Bunsen on 2010-08-04 20:54:22
Suffice it to say for the moment that they are different, not compatible, not interchangeable.
Here's LEM's guide to the DayStar Turbo 601 PowerPC Processor Upgrade for '030 Desktop Macs
Note that the ones for the IIci, IIsi, and IIvx/IIvi/Performa 600 are actually different part numbers.
My guess would be that the only way to use it in a IIfx would be to use a Daystar adapter that presents a IIci PDS, such as the ones for the PowerCache CPU upgrades. I don't know if one was ever made specifically for the IIfx, but there is the one for the IIcx which plugs into the '030 CPU socket rather than the PDS. Whether that could be kludged into a IIfx, or work at all, is a whole other story.
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Posted by: Byrd on 2010-08-04 23:13:15
I'll have to check the part numbers on mine, but recall nothing correlated with what I had. Either way, the only thing I could get it to work in is a IIsi, in my meagre cupboard of Mac goodness.
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