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| Click here to select a new forum. | | What?! | Posted by: macgeek417 on 2009-07-28 12:36:20 Am I the only person here that that this has happened to twice?
somehow, my ISP-wide shared static IP (216.135.11.50, the same IP as the neighbor's as when we got high-speed, we got the same ISp as the neighbors) was banned.
Who knew there were so many spammers in the Evansville, IN area? 😛
| Posted by: ~tl on 2009-07-28 12:50:10 I've un-banned that IP...
| Posted by: MrMacPlus on 2009-07-30 08:49:30 If you are having problems with the shared IP I might recommend using a proxy server.
| Posted by: macgeek417 on 2009-07-30 14:52:01 I do that sometimes, bur proxies get annoying.
| Posted by: MrMacPlus on 2009-07-30 18:56:55 Well which would you rather put up with then?
| Posted by: II2II on 2009-07-30 21:20:04 Sorry, but I'm going to go into rant mode here, mostly because I don't like MrMacPlus' response. It is indicative, in my mind, of a phenomena that I refer to as anti-spam fascism. It is an attitude where the ends justify the means. An attitude that encourages authoritarian responses, since those harmed often have no say in the matter.
Many of these authoritarian responses are technical in nature. The problem with technical solutions is that they don't address the real problem, so the problem persists. It may pop up in a different form, or it may temporarily move on to easier pickings, but it will always return. Which is why these technical solutions leads to even more authoritarian technical solutions. Unfortunately the increasingly authoritarian solutions often harm innocent bystanders.
The problem of spam is actually a social issue, and it requires social solutions. Now I'm not going to blame the maintainers of these forums for ignoring those solutions, because it is clearly beyond their means. They are stuck with patching up a system that clearly barely works. But I am going to criticize people who think that these are an acceptable solutions, even when they cause harm, because that precludes the search for more effective solutions. In many respects, it only makes matters worse.
I mean, look at MrMacPlus' suggestion: the bystander should use a proxy. Not only is it inconveniencing the bystander and opening that bystander to other potential sources of harm (such as revealing their login credentials to a third party), but it is also a means for spammers to circumvent the IP address check. So nothing has really been solved. Though some things have been made worse.
| Posted by: porter on 2009-07-30 21:48:54 In a world where many people used a DHCP or similarly allocated IP addresses it seems odd to choose that as a way of banning people.
| Posted by: LCGuy on 2009-07-30 21:57:34 The trouble is though is that short of banning usernames or IP addresses, there's really a not a whole lot more we can do. I could, for example, go and troll the crap out of a forum, any forum, get my entire university's network banned from that forum, as well as any and all usernames I used, but that would not at all stop me from taking the MacBook down to the local Maccas, ordering a thickshake and fries, jumping on the WiFi there, and joining back up.
| Posted by: porter on 2009-07-30 22:33:16
but that would not at all stop me from ... ordering a thickshake and fries See, not even blocking an IP address will stop people having thickshakes.
| Posted by: macgeek417 on 2009-07-30 23:20:11 Um... A 15 second google for "proxy server" gets tons of results. Whats the point in banning IPs when you can easily find thousands of proxys.
Also, the PM system doesn't work via proxys, i tried.
| Posted by: ~tl on 2009-07-31 02:33:54 Please don't use proxy servers. It makes keeping track of your every movement a lot harder...
[}🙂] ]'>
Also, the PM system doesn't work via proxys, i tried. Strange, I don't see why that should be the case...
| Posted by: macgeek417 on 2009-07-31 11:03:59 its kinda hard to not use a proxy when my shared IP gets banned 🙁
| Posted by: ~tl on 2009-08-01 12:54:01 It should be un-banned now...
| Posted by: macgeek417 on 2009-08-01 14:23:09 it is.
| Posted by: MrMacPlus on 2009-08-01 21:05:24
Sorry, but I'm going to go into rant mode here, mostly because I don't like MrMacPlus' response. It is indicative, in my mind, of a phenomena that I refer to as anti-spam fascism. It is an attitude where the ends justify the means. An attitude that encourages authoritarian responses, since those harmed often have no say in the matter.
Many of these authoritarian responses are technical in nature. The problem with technical solutions is that they don't address the real problem, so the problem persists. It may pop up in a different form, or it may temporarily move on to easier pickings, but it will always return. Which is why these technical solutions leads to even more authoritarian technical solutions. Unfortunately the increasingly authoritarian solutions often harm innocent bystanders.
The problem of spam is actually a social issue, and it requires social solutions. Now I'm not going to blame the maintainers of these forums for ignoring those solutions, because it is clearly beyond their means. They are stuck with patching up a system that clearly barely works. But I am going to criticize people who think that these are an acceptable solutions, even when they cause harm, because that precludes the search for more effective solutions. In many respects, it only makes matters worse.
I mean, look at MrMacPlus' suggestion: the bystander should use a proxy. Not only is it inconveniencing the bystander and opening that bystander to other potential sources of harm (such as revealing their login credentials to a third party), but it is also a means for spammers to circumvent the IP address check. So nothing has really been solved. Though some things have been made worse. My response suggested using a proxy in order to circumvent an inconvienience. It was only a suggestion, and though it may have some potential risks it is up to the user to weigh the positives and negatives and decide whether to put up with occasional bans placed on IP addresses that are used. For example, my school district's whole network is blocked from editing on wikipedia. I could very well use a proxy in order to circumvent this ban and legitimately edit articles if I wanted to, is anybody really being harmed by my actions? I think not.
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