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Beige G3 or iMac G3?
Posted by: RichardG on 2009-06-15 09:28:00
I will buy a G3 (very cheap here), however the question is the subject.

Many come without keyboard or mouse, and no money is spare to buy a USB card, so I might get the iMac. Before I forget, I have USB keyboard and mice which work plug-and-play on Redmond's OS. The choices (estimative prices):

$47: iMac G3/233/160M/4G (no keyboard/mice)

$50: iMac G3/233/?/? (no mice)

$75: Beige G3/?/?/? (no mice, includes monitor, desktop, specs unknown)

$85: iMac G3/350/64M/30G (no sound, broken power button however includes the USB Keyboard with power button [told this method works])

$90: iMac G3/233/256M/160G

$90: Beige G3/300/?/? (no monitor, minitower)

$99: iMac G3/233/64M/4G (no keyboard/mice)

$100: iMac G3/DV400/256M/0G (no HDD, monitor with bad X/Y adjust [can the Service Source tool I forgot the name fix it?])
Posted by: Mike Richardson on 2009-06-15 09:56:00
Where are you located? Those prices sound kind of high unless you're looking at some kind of store.
Posted by: RichardG on 2009-06-15 10:00:29
It's Brazil. Anything common before the Beige G3 is the Performa 6200/6300/6360. No 68k Macs. It's an auction site.
Posted by: joshc on 2009-06-15 10:04:45
With a Beige G3 desktop or minitower, you have the option of upgrading through PCI slots, and upgrading the machine to a G4 in the future. With the iMac, you get a nice compact machine that's good for general stuff, but not very expandable. And you never know when part of the CRT assembly decides to die, such as the flyback transformer.
Posted by: RichardG on 2009-06-15 10:10:17
I just want a real Mac for OS X (believe or not I even didn't tried PearPC) and features which emulation can't do (RAM disk...). I would get a Beige G3, but I don't have a USB card nor Mac-VGA adaptor. I think I will get the miceless Beige, add in a cheap USB card ($20?) and use its keyboard for emergency (enter OF, etc.).
Posted by: joshc on 2009-06-15 10:50:17
You really need a G4 for OS X to feel enjoyable and speedy, even if you are only web browsing or whatever. And you'd be best with Leopard, because its the most secure and software will be supported on Leopard for at least another 2 years. This is not the case with Tiger and any prior versions, which are no longer the focus of software developers. By all means get a Beige G3 or iMac G3, but OS 9 is really the best OS for those machines.
Posted by: RichardG on 2009-06-15 11:01:58
G4s? The cheapest one (a Power Mac G4/533) is $200.

Also, I know that G3 iMacs require maximum VRAM (6 MB) for acceptable OS X performance, however NO ONE IN THIS COUNTRY ( 8-o ) sells VRAM.

A bit offtopic, can someone access Headgap's store? It always times out here, and downforeveryoneorjustme.com says it's up.
Posted by: Mike Richardson on 2009-06-15 11:52:53
Also, I know that G3 iMacs require maximum VRAM (6 MB) for acceptable OS X performance, however NO ONE IN THIS COUNTRY ( 8-o ) sells VRAM.
I have some VRAM chips for these. $5 + shipping (about $5 to Brazil).
Posted by: RichardG on 2009-06-15 11:57:51
No, thanks. This will not be now.

Still, do someone know why Headgap's store is apparently blocked here? I was able to access it thru a web proxy.

EDIT: Mike, if the 80% import tax (I hate it) didn't exist, I would buy one of Adopt a Mac's BTO systems.
Posted by: Unknown_K on 2009-06-15 13:22:31
I would pick a beige over an Imac, expecially if the beige is a tower.
Posted by: RichardG on 2009-06-15 13:31:04
I think it will be around October, so lots of time to decide.

In which one XPostFacto for Panther/Tiger works better?

Remember, I'm not picky, I just want for OS X and features not available on emulation (virtual memory, RAM disk...)
Posted by: Dog Cow on 2009-06-15 13:42:23
Remember that the iMac is/was the low-end machine, so you'll get better performance from the desktop/tower G3.
Posted by: Unknown_K on 2009-06-15 14:01:08
A low end beige G3 is not great with OSX unless you use an older version like 10.2.x.
Posted by: RichardG on 2009-06-15 14:36:41
I just want something like a first touch with OS X, but price options aren't attracting, that's why I chose a G3 xx(

No joy about Headgap's being blocked in Brazil without reason?
Posted by: iMac600 on 2009-06-16 01:35:34
Remember that the iMac is/was the low-end machine, so you'll get better performance from the desktop/tower G3.
You would think so, but I found some interesting results when doing the "everyday use" tests. The Beige G3 (333MHz G3, 768MB RAM) was significantly slower in running Mac OS X Jaguar than the iMac G3 (266MHz G3, 192MB RAM).

If it was a Blue & White G3, it would probably be a different case once again, with the B&W smoking the equivalent series iMac G3.

If you're all for giving it the Mac Modders' Touch though, the Beige G3 would be quite a screamer. Upgrade to a faster G3 or G4 ZIF, max out the RAM, give it a decent sized hard disk or two, a PCI graphics card, USB card, FireWire PCI card and perhaps even bump up the Frontside Bus clock speed (quite easy to do on these machines).

Unfortunately with a Beige G3 you'll still live with the issues of an Old World ROM. XPostFacto wlll get you up to Tiger on it, and even Leopard if it has a G4 ZIF and you have access to the Leopard Developer Preview "Gossamer KEXTs", but there can be quirks with getting XPostFacto to do its thing in the first place, as I found.
Posted by: RichardG on 2009-06-16 09:36:38
I'll probably get a B&W but it's far from that G4/533. Also no processor upgrades as the VRAM. I found someone with one long ago but it was $500. Shipping is absolutely expensive (~$10 for CDs, ~$75-$200 for Macs). 2147483647 times unbearable.
Posted by: Cory5412 on 2009-06-16 13:04:29
I would get one of the G3/233 iMacs -- you can install panther on them without any modification. The G3/400 would be nice if you're confident in your ability to repair it, and that would run Tiger without any modification, other than adding a hard disk and maybe some ram.

There are a wide variety of little problems with OS X on beige G3s, including partition size problems, massive performance issues, etc.

If you intend to get an upgradeable machine, before you buy it, research very carefully the cost of upgrading that older machine versus the cost of just buying a newer machine (which will have better performance anyway.) -- even with an 800MHz G4, a beige G3 will be limited by its 66MHz bus, whereas a native G4/533 tower will have a 100 or 133MHz bus.

And there's a certain point about 75% of the way through the G4 lineup, at least here in the USA, where you may as well get a new intel-based Mac Mini: http://www.colombo.com.br/produtoDetalhe.do?produto=150063&descricao=Mac+mini+MB463BZ_A+Core+2+Duo+(2.0GHz)+1GB+RAM+120GB+Apple

though for $2700, I can see how a G4/533 for $200 is a downright steal compared to american pricing.
Posted by: RichardG on 2009-06-17 12:17:38
No funds for a Mini, sorry.

STILL NO JOY about Headgap's timing out? (I don't bother emailing them)
Posted by: Temetka on 2009-06-17 14:20:22
If it were me I would go with the BeigeG3.

It''s more upgradeable, and certain models can run on an 83MHz system bus. Replacing a Rev A with a Rev B or C ROM can solve the slave drive issues and adding an ATA/66 controller will solve all IDE problems.

The graphics subsystem in the iMacs are weak at best. The graphics in the BeigeG3 are also weak but can be upgraded to a Radeon 7500, 8500 or 9200 should you so desire. Couple that with PCIExtreme and you can have Quartz Extreme running.

Finally adding a ZIF G4 to the BeigeG3 in combination with upgraded graphics and IDE controller will give you a Mac that should smoke any of the iMac's (Imac G4's and G5's not withstanding). Sure some Imac's will have a 100MHz system bus, however since some Beige G3's can do 83MHz on the system bus, it's really a trivial difference between the two.

I know all this because the machine I just described is in my closet. It's a killer Beige G3 (now G4) and it rocks Tiger with no problems whatsoever. I did have to play with xPostFacto a tad, but it only added about 20 minutes or so to the install procedure.

For the money and the learning curve (all the skills you learn, plus the fun tinkering) I would with the BeigeG3 any day of the week even if it is a desktop and not a mini-tower.
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