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| Reverse Engineering the Macintosh SE PCB & Custom Chips for 1:1 reproduction |
Posted by: LaPorta on 2020-07-11 19:48:19
I’d buy these off you, but shipping might be prohibitive. I assuming your files can be used by board fabricators anywhere?
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Posted by: Kai Robinson on 2020-07-11 22:46:15
@LaPorta Yes, standard Gerbers - once these boards are tested, if they work OK, then i'll put them up in a Tindie store to allow people to buy single boards off me, with a little markup so i can recoup the development costs of the board - after that, i'll release the Gerbers for all to make and move on to the SE/30, Classic or whatever else people want me to make next...just need two or three dead PCB's and a copy of the schematics and i'm all good to go 😀
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Posted by: maceffects on 2020-07-12 00:31:54
The SE/30 is probably the one most in need of a new PCB though it is more complex than the basic SE and would require a lot of SMD skills but who knows. Maybe with the right stencil, paste, and reflow oven it can be streamlined.
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Posted by: Trash80toHP_Mini on 2020-07-12 00:34:11
Amazing, love your work!
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Posted by: CC_333 on 2020-07-12 02:22:41
The SE/30 is probably the one most in need of a new PCB though it is more complex than the basic SE and would require a lot of SMD skills but who knows. Maybe with the right stencil, paste, and reflow oven it can be streamlined. At least it doesn't use any BGA stuff!
Amazing, love your work! Definitely seconded 10,000%!!!
c
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Posted by: Trash80toHP_Mini on 2020-07-12 02:46:55
Have at it for 1:1 repro enthusiasts, again, LOVE your work!
< tangent >
But for the SE/30 project, I think we need to make a few upgrades and provision for a bit of modularity. @maceffects with a noodge here and a cutaway section there, an SE/30 board will fit in an unmodified Portable case along with your crazy new Vidcard running a 10.1" 1280x800 RPi-inexpensive panel. That'll make a much sexier MacColby SE30! Without doing the cutaway hacking, it'll still fit and look hella fine in your clear case. Methinks there are even more dead/irreparable Luggable boards out there than the SE/30 variety and I doubt anyone throws away that gorgeous display case. :approve:
< /tangent >
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Posted by: CC_333 on 2020-07-12 04:34:45
Next up, we can come up with a reproduction analog board that contains all the circuitry needed to drive a modern LCD, then, with maceffects' clear case, we can have a 95% reproduction SE or SE/30! (we could get this pretty close to 100% if we can figure out how to clone the custom Apple ICs or somehow re-implement their functions without salvaging them from dead boards).
< tangent >
But for the SE/30 project, I think we need to make a few upgrades and provision for a bit of modularity. @maceffects with a noodge here and a cutaway section there, an SE/30 board will fit in an unmodified Portable case ... Without doing the cutaway hacking, it'll still fit and look hella fine in your clear case. ...
...
< /tangent > That would be interesting. While you're at it, rework the power supply circuitry so it can run without a battery, if need be, and have the redesign be implement-able on an otherwise stock Portable LB (for those fortunate enough to have one that by some miracle still works).
c
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Posted by: Daniël on 2020-07-12 04:59:15
Another vote for the SE/30 next! I have two SE/30s that I shoddily recapped, and the boards aren't in the greatest condition, so now that I have better soldering skills, I'd love to give my two SE/30s fresh boards, with all non-proprietary/unobtanium ICs and components replaced with fresh ones. Ensuring I'll never add leakage prone batteries and capacitors, those boards will likely outlast the originals!
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Posted by: cheesestraws on 2020-07-12 05:00:45
But for the SE/30 project, I think we need to make a few upgrades and provision for a bit of modularity "need" is a strong word here 🙂 I'd suspect it would be a lot easier to muck around with the board after the event if you know you're starting from a working layout and schematic.
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Posted by: rplacd on 2020-07-12 05:05:22
Another vote for the SE/30 next! I have two SE/30s that I shoddily recapped, and the boards aren't in the greatest condition, so now that I have better soldering skills, I'd love to give my two SE/30s fresh boards, with all non-proprietary/unobtanium ICs and components replaced with fresh ones. Ensuring I'll never add leakage prone batteries and capacitors, those boards will likely outlast the originals! Ha! The idea of a completely non-Apple SE/30 is great. Let's keep our SE/30s running indefinitely...
As part of the Classic II gang gang, though, I'm obliged to cast my vote for the Classic II... although it's got custom ASICs out the wazoo, so it'll be harder to do. Oh well, SE/30 it is.
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Posted by: Trash80toHP_Mini on 2020-07-12 05:27:09
... all you need to do then is create your own internal chassis and boom – a completely non-Apple SE/30! You're forgetting the proprietary Silicon on the board, very Apple that.
"need" is a strong word here 🙂 I'd suspect it would be a lot easier to muck around with the board after the event if you know you're starting from a working layout and schematic. We've already got a cleaned up version of Apple's schematic ready for mucking about a bit from a ground up build. Has it been checked against the Bomarc schematic? I need to get at least the memory page of that version.
Don't get me wrong, I love the process of 1:1 repro work from an existing PCB and mucking about with it. That's really the only PCB "design" I've done, right down to sanding off the layers of a complex later 90's PCB, albeit the very small, PCMCIA/I/R daughtercard for the 1400 030 Bus.
I want to see what @techknight and the FPGA/CPLD boffins can come up with in terms of simplification/parts count reduction and hopefully a bit of modularization of Lthe ogic Board's block diagram. Two approaches, one from the top and one from the ground up happening concurrently should be beneficial to both projects I'd think.
< tangent >
But for the SE/30 project, I think we need to make a few upgrades and provision for a bit of modularity. @maceffects with a noodge here and a cutaway section there, an SE/30 board will fit in an unmodified Portable case ... Without doing the cutaway hacking, it'll still fit and look hella fine in your clear case. ...
...
< /tangent > That would be interesting. While you're at it, rework the power supply circuitry so it can run without a battery, if need be, and have the redesign be implement-able on an otherwise stock Portable LB (for those fortunate enough to have one that by some miracle still works).
Thinking PicoPSU/Plugged in only at first. After that a 24v battery pack that would match the three hour battery life of the MacColby SE30 might be possible?
Enough of this tangent! I'll do some doodling in AI and start a new hacks thread about my SE/30 Portable notions if anyone's interested?
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Posted by: Kai Robinson on 2020-07-13 21:37:22
Someone needs to send me two or three dead SE/30 boards so i can do a 1:1 repro - but yes, the schematics are available for this, at least. From the Sprint Layout, i'm going to import each layer as a BMP into KiCAD and then potentially backport it into a schematic 😀
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Posted by: Bolle on 2020-07-13 21:47:13
How are you going to scan the internal signal layers on the SE/30 logicboard for a 1:1 repro?
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Posted by: cheesestraws on 2020-07-13 22:32:29
Someone needs to send me two or three dead SE/30 boards I have one of these I'm quite happy to drop into the post for you.
How are you going to scan the internal signal layers on the SE/30 logicboard for a 1:1 repro? Curious about this, too
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Posted by: Kai Robinson on 2020-07-13 22:33:53
For that, there's a schematic. Also, AN ORBITAL SANDER! 😀
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Posted by: Trash80toHP_Mini on 2020-07-13 23:21:28
If one of the gang is into CNC milling there's also the "embed in epoxy and and shave off a layer at a time" approach for your scanning process. 🙂
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Posted by: Kai Robinson on 2020-07-13 23:26:10
Sure i'd take that method - as long as i get scans of the layers, i don't care how they were obtained - if someone else wants to do the disassembly and scan the layers at 1200dpi, i'll do the work in sprint.
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Posted by: IlikeTech on 2020-07-14 00:03:09
This is really awesome. I'll be looking forward to seeing the first repro SE board booted up!
The SE/30 has more custom logic, no? Is it possible to program another chip with the VLSI code? Or would some modern replacement need to be made?
RE LCDs: While this is probably the only way to keep these operating in the long run, I think using the CRT is part of the charm of these machines, is it not?
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Posted by: techknight on 2020-07-14 00:09:16
This is really awesome. I'll be looking forward to seeing the first repro SE board booted up!
The SE/30 has more custom logic, no? Is it possible to program another chip with the VLSI code? Or would some modern replacement need to be made?
RE LCDs: While this is probably the only way to keep these operating in the long run, I think using the CRT is part of the charm of these machines, is it not?
First we need a round of 1:1 PCBs. We can remove the logic ICs from the dead boards and transplant them over. the really important bits like the GLU, ASC, SCC, SWIM, etc usually survive.
Also be fore-warned: the official SE/30 schematics are missing a couple pages, and they contain all the test points, and resistor networks. So DONT forget those!
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Posted by: Kai Robinson on 2020-07-14 05:21:16
Well, anything SE/30 related can be in another post, i'm gonna concentrate on the SE for now.
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