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| Modern display into Powerbook 190 |
Posted by: zigzagjoe on 2025-01-31 06:55:50
I'm honestly expecting a parallel data interface of up to 8 bits (not all of which might be used on a grayscale system), a dot clock (possibly sampling the parallel data on both rising and falling edges), a blanking or row/column start signal or two, and some signals for running the backlight and setting brightness. A bit of work with a multi-channel scope might end up figuring out the bulk of it fairly quickly... or it could be way more abstruse.
One of the main reasons that I'm not trying to get a powerbook to try and reverse engineer it myself is that I really don't want to be buying any more projects, at least until I've finished some of the ones I already have. Depends if it is passive or active matrix. Active should be more or less as you say. Passive matrix screens are stranger as they require some odd drive signals to make work. |
Posted by: indibil on 2025-01-31 08:02:53
As someone already mentioned, I think it might be worth trying this method first. In this video it's very difficult to remove the old film, in other videos it's easier to remove.
I found a 30x20cm film for less than 5€. I'll probably get bubbles when I stick it on, who knows.
Vynegar Syndrome
I want to ask you another questions. I have obtained a PB 3400 RAM module, which I read works at 3.3V, and I assume that the PB190 RAM works at 5V. The main physical difference is that the connector has been soldered turned 180º, preventing it from being plugged in. I have looked for the reference for the memory chips, and I only found this document where it says that they work at 5V.
UPD4218160G5-60
Could it be that these chips can work interchangeably at 3.3V and 5V? That they have a wide range?
If so, I would try to rotate the connector 180º, and use this 32MB of RAM, because I am not able to find RAM suitable for PB190 at an affordable price. My PB190 has 8MB onboard.
Some PB5300s have 1MB of VRAM onboard, do you think it is possible to replace the VRAM keys on the PB190 with larger ones and get more colors on the PB190? |
Posted by: Trash80toHP_Mini on 2025-01-31 08:22:48
@nyef Reverse engineering the Luggable's LCD interface might prove to be the most interesting of projects? |
Posted by: finkmac on 2025-01-31 08:23:01
passive matrix panels require a specific type of film, TN film.
these polarizer films have a special filtering layer. this is also why it's often harder to remove TN films.
I want to ask you another questions. I have obtained a PB 3400 RAM module, which I read works at 3.3V, and I assume that the PB190 RAM works at 5V. The main physical difference is that the connector has been soldered turned 180º, preventing it from being plugged in. I have looked for the reference for the memory chips, and I only found this document where it says that they work at 5V.
UPD4218160G5-60
Could it be that these chips can work interchangeably at 3.3V and 5V? That they have a wide range?
If so, I would try to rotate the connector 180º, and use this 32MB of RAM, because I am not able to find RAM suitable for PB190 at an affordable price. My PB190 has 8MB onboard. this is a very bad idea and highly unlikely to work. there's a reason apple rotated the connector...
why not just post a wanted thread in the trading post?
edit: yeah absolutely do not do that.
compare the memory expansion pinouts. you would be putting 5v into 3.3v parts. |
Posted by: indibil on 2025-01-31 08:33:05
passive matrix panels require a specific type of film, TN film.
these polarizer films have a special filtering layer. this is also why it's often harder to remove TN films.
this is a very bad idea and highly unlikely to work. there's a reason apple rotated the connector...
why not just post a wanted thread in the trading post?
edit: yeah absolutely do not do that.
compare the memory expansion pinouts. you would be putting 5v into 3.3v parts. So I need TN film? I had found polarized.
Thanks for the RAM suggestion, apart from the voltage, the pinout is completely different. I'm not going to try it.
I haven't looked in the buy-sell section because I'm in Spain, just the shipping and taxes would make it too expensive. |
Posted by: finkmac on 2025-01-31 08:45:48
the film you need to replace is the polarizer, so it should be polarized... but this specific panel is passive matrix / TN... so it needs a TN Polarization film
as for a want to buy thread, you could always specify spain or eu. |
Posted by: indibil on 2025-01-31 22:24:00
Ok, thanks, then I'm going to buy polarized, and I've seen that it costs less to remove. I found this one, what do you think?
Polarized film |
Posted by: 3lectr1cPPC on 2025-02-01 08:22:22
That’s regular film so it won’t work. You need FSTN film which includes an extra retarder layer required for passive matrix displays to display a proper image. That’s unfortunately harder to find. |
Posted by: finkmac on 2025-02-01 08:30:16
try fstn film from here https://es.aliexpress.com/item/1005008087000712.html
should be second option |
Posted by: indibil on 2025-02-01 10:04:00
Thanks for your reply. I just saw that all FSTN sellers don't ship to Europe!!! I've contacted them to see if it's possible. I'm unlucky.
It has to be exactly FSTN, right? Because he has several options, he also has TN, STN... |
Posted by: Byrd on 2025-02-01 14:39:02
Yes, you must match the right film to the right display. Get one and go from there, with experimenting most likely required. The existing film can be slowly peeled away do from a warm room, and the old glue wipe away with IPA. Needless to say avoid any bending of the LCD and extreme heat/pressure on the display during this work! |
Posted by: indibil on 2025-02-01 22:02:05
Thank you very much, I'm going to try to buy it and see if I can get it, I'm not sure.... |
Posted by: Byrd on 2025-02-02 00:06:27
Good luck!
Regarding bubbles, there is always the option of removing the adhesive and just mounting the polariser using thin double sided tape on the edges; I had to do same in a STN LCD display (uses two polarisers front and back, get out!) it was simply too difficult to sandwich everything together. |
Posted by: indibil on 2025-02-05 05:54:20
It seems that the Aliexpress seller is unable to activate shipping to Europe. I am insisting that he ask Aliexpress, but I am afraid that I will not be able to purchase the film. And now I would need two, because I have received a PB1400cs with the same problem. |
Posted by: LaPorta on 2025-02-05 06:56:11
It seems that the Aliexpress seller is unable to activate shipping to Europe. I am insisting that he ask Aliexpress, but I am afraid that I will not be able to purchase the film. And now I would need two, because I have received a PB1400cs with the same problem. The 1400 issue is very simple: there are literally tons of scrap 1400cs models out there with decent screens for cheap. |
Posted by: croissantking on 2025-10-06 01:35:13
There’s a 5300c LCD on eBay UK at the moment: link |
Posted by: bibilit on 2026-01-12 04:33:46
I tested my 5300 this week-end and the screen is worse than the one posted by Indibil.
I think i have a spare but not a 100% sure... the 5300 has been kept in a steady temperature place for many years,... and the HD is bad as well. |
Posted by: dankcomputing on 2026-02-19 18:59:17
The problems with PowerBook LCDs are the same as all handheld console LCDs, just scaled up. Of course, with consoles you have a huge selection of perfectly engineered drop-in modern LCD replacements and with powerbooks you get to pay $300 + trumpriffs for an allegedly NOS panel on aliexpress.
I've always thought there's gotta be PC laptop LCDs that could drop in but they're starting to get really scarce. There might be one that matches the 190 since it's 640x480, but the specific 486-era laptop with the right panel in it might be almost as impossible to find as another PowerBook. There's precious little documentation of what panels are in what models as well. There might be some for the more desirable Thinkpads but that's just it, they're documented because they're worth as much as their Mac counterparts and not exactly a good donor source.
A big big problem with building a bridge board to drop the ubiquitous iPad LCDs into old laptops is the very unique screen shape, resolution and size those old laptops had. A lot of the consoles wind up having to have their bezels replaced because the replacement screen's usable area goes slightly higher than the original and on a Powerbook that's usually a pretty complicated part to have to model and then 3D print acceptably. |
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