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Fun with colour on my SE/30
Posted by: Bunsen on 2019-06-02 10:59:40
I was looking at doing this with Adafruit's 9.7" display (basically the iPad Retina display), since 2048x1536 would be high enough res to be able to upsample a few different resolutions without bad artifacts. But, that relies a lot on a magical third board that could do analog->DisplayPort


The earlier iPad displays do 1024x768 (XGA), which is exactly pixel-double the old Mac 512x342, and will work off cheap ebay driver boards.  And the iPad Mini version, at 7.9" diagonal, would fit neatly in the bezel.  You can pick up a kit with the driver board and panel for not too many dollars.

10.4" and smaller XGA LCDs were also used in a few laptops, Panasonic Toughbooks for example.
Posted by: Bunsen on 2019-06-02 11:03:16
Would the monitor from a Colour Classic fit and work in an SE/30?
It'll fit the front bezel, but the neck is a couple of inches too long for the case and would stick out the back.
Posted by: ArmorAlley on 2019-06-02 11:41:30
It'll fit the front bezel, but the neck is a couple of inches too long for the case and would stick out the back.
I reckoned that had it been even halfway feasible, it would have been done by now. And since I've read nothing about it, it mustn't be feasible. But the two monitors don't look all that different side by side. Of course, I hadn't considered depth at all.

Thanks for this.
Posted by: PB145B on 2019-06-02 12:47:12
It'll fit the front bezel, but the neck is a couple of inches too long for the case and would stick out the back.
I don’t think it would fit, because the SE/30 display is 9” and the Color Classic display is 10”.
Posted by: Trash80toHP_Mini on 2019-06-02 13:24:26
 Other than the neck board protrusion, a 10" display will definitely fit inside a compact Mac case, did it 15 years ago and again with another CRT fairly recently.

View attachment 14218

compact-mac-w10-color-crt-inside-a-standard-carryall

Stumbling block is finding out if a PCB for neck board/nipple offset as above will work or not. If so, hiding the assembly within the confines of a Jasmine BackPac reproduction becomes possible.

View attachment 14221

But that's a neither here nor there tangent ATM as it's in the "because it's impossible, just gotta do it!" category with no practical application other than being another "yes I can because I cheat!" kinda hack. Anybody else would be crazy to follow that lead. ant's project addresses an issue that will become necessary over the long term as the CRT replacements, much less Color CRT donors are are relentlessly compressed into unobtanium alloys.

What I'm really curious about it would be the controller that vented its magic smoke, sorry to hear about that.

@ants got linkage on that controller board? Mfr site/support docs/manual?
Posted by: Michael_b on 2019-06-02 17:40:41
Ooh.  What else can you change in this hidden menu?

A board that can be arbitrarily reconfigured to run oddball displays would be hugely useful to me.
Have you seen the controllers like this one that can be reconfigured for numerous displays (including 5V vs 3.3v) through the use of jumpers?

Thanks all for the encouraging words. I was going to pack it all in after frying my LCD controller - but you've motivated me to keep on trying.
I'm no expert, but I *think* you can get away with a cheap, generic LVDS controller - no need to spend a lot of money on one tied to your specific monitor. The trouble is tracking down such a controller. According to panelook, this is a 640x480 6/8 bit 3.3v monitor. That would at first glance seem to be compatible with the <$6 VGA controller linked above, but for some reason that controller indicates that it can drive a 640x480 dual channel LVDS monitor, and yours is single channel. OTOH, people have apparently found those charts to be wrong before - and it seems odd that 640x480 would be drive by dual channel LVDS rather than single. It remains to be seen whether or not that controller could use the 65Hz sync, even if it were compatible with your display. However, if it could sync to 65Hz - and maybe other frequencies - that knowledge could be invaluable in getting oddball outputs from early video cards running

Edit: I'm very curious to know everything about the controller board you were using, especially the main controller chip. 

HTB1vRhCXnjxK1Rjy0Fnq6yBaFXaF.jpg
Posted by: PB145B on 2019-06-02 22:08:38
Other than the neck board protrusion, a 10" display will definitely fit inside a compact Mac case, did it 15 years ago and again with another CRT fairly recently.

 
I stand corrected then! 
Posted by: Trash80toHP_Mini on 2019-06-03 00:48:01
 Not corrected exactly, a 10" CRT will just barely fit inside a compact Mac case with an irrational level of effort. Notice that the top retaining screws for the bucket and tube to interface them needs to be eliminated. threaded rod replaces the omitted Torx Screws to clamp the band of the CRT down and nuts snug the back edge of the band up tight to the modified front bezel to keep it in place. I clipped the ears of this one. 15 years ago I left the lugs intact (or mostly so?) and slotted the sides of the case so it was held in position in the bucket using no fasteners at all

View attachment 14218

Not practical by any stretch of the imagination  .  .  .  but impossible to resist.
Posted by: PB145B on 2019-06-03 01:00:22
That’s wild! Did you ever make a fully-working Mac out of it?
Posted by: Trash80toHP_Mini on 2019-06-03 01:02:29
Edit: I'm very curious to know everything about the controller board you were using, especially the main controller chip. 
+1 Just finding a few that sync to 65/66MHz inputs will be an awesome achievement.

Sticking point in the ointment, The SE/30 "screen" has been reported to comes up as the main/boot display even without the Video ROM in place, but the pic in the OP doesn't appear bear this? out. @ants did you get the menu bar moved over onto the panel via the Video Control Panel or did the reported problems not crop up at all? Have you got a Phantom 512x384 patch of virtual desktop out there waiting to devour your cursor?
Posted by: Bunsen on 2019-06-03 01:07:32
Have you seen the controllers like this one that can be reconfigured for numerous displays (including 5V vs 3.3v) through the use of jumpers?
😱

No, no I had not.  I've never seen any driver board that cheap, let alone a configurable one.

Unfortunately it appears to only support a number of common (ie, modern) resolutions.  I'm looking for something I can assign arbitrary resolutions and scan rates, and other timing details.
Posted by: Trash80toHP_Mini on 2019-06-03 01:07:47
That’s wild! Did you ever make a fully-working Mac out of it?
Not yet, it's sitting under one of the benches with the rest of the compacts vying fo attention. Gotta find out if the neck board offset PCB adapter is technical possibility or just make the damn thing and try it. Comment in the thread for any more info to keep this one clear.
Posted by: DeChief on 2019-07-01 18:50:57
Keen to see updates on this project! Did you manage to unfry the LCD controller or get a new one?

I was doing some googling to see if anybody had successfully managed to fit a color CRT inside of an SE/30 and found this thread, which is inspiring to say the least. I've managed to secure a 9" color SVGA CRT that may fit, if not with some modification to the back of the Mac case (which is fine, I've got empty spares). Now I just need a Radius Pivot IIsi card to get color out of the SE/30...
Posted by: ants on 2019-07-03 03:57:43
Did you manage to unfry the LCD controller or get a new one?
Not yet unfortunately - life has been too busy. However I did receive some more resin & rubber in the mail to make a new mold of the CRT screen - I'm going to try including the mounting tabs from the original CRT so that the LCD can easily and cleanly mounted inside the Mac.

I'll just need to find some time!
Posted by: DeChief on 2019-07-07 00:04:17
Hooray! If my incoming CRT doesn't properly fit the case without severe modifications, I'll be relying on one of your CRT castings  😛 best of luck.
Posted by: tt on 2019-07-13 17:15:20
@ants That photo you took looks really promising, great job!
Posted by: sambapati87 on 2019-08-21 03:00:11
Add me to the list of people willing to pay for one of those castings!
Posted by: kahlil88 on 2019-09-03 04:25:01
Looking to install an LED screen in my Mac SE/30 as well. Not sure about the casting but I'd certainly throw down some shekels for proper mounting hardware to avoid irreversible case modifications and glue!
Posted by: ants on 2019-09-03 15:35:26
Hi all, thanks for your ongoing interest - however, I've decided not to continue with this project. As cool as it was to see a colour screen in an SE/30 - for me personally I feel the original B&W CRT is a big part of what makes these old machines so special. Staring at an LCD in a SE/30 just felt wrong, which is why I haven't been motivated to keep going with it.

I also own a Mac Colour Classic - it's Trinitron CRT is wonderful and this machine was always made for colour.
Posted by: Byrd on 2019-09-03 15:53:53
Hi ants,

I'm in Melbourne and would be interested in continuing the project if you were willing to sell your LCD?

Thanks

JB
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