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| Beige G3: PCI SATA, is it an option? |
Posted by: EvieSigma on 2017-10-16 18:12:07
Slightly unrelated, but is there a difference between the A and B beige G3 boards? Obviously there must be, but is it as significant a difference as the B&W A and B boards or is it something less important?
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Posted by: Unknown_K on 2017-10-16 20:47:57
Rev 1 models have no support for slave drives on the IDE bus.
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Posted by: EvieSigma on 2017-10-16 21:00:53
Ah right, thank you. Will have to make sure I get the -B board then.
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Posted by: Unknown_K on 2017-10-16 21:48:30
There is the REV1 and REV2 motherboards and A,B,C ROM modules. REV 1 came with A ROM.
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Posted by: EvieSigma on 2017-10-16 21:52:01
I'll have to check the ROM I have but the part number of the board ended in a B...
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Posted by: trag on 2017-10-17 11:21:41
At some point, Apple changed the video chip on the Beige from Rage II to Rage Pro, IIRC. I don't know if that was an A to B change. And I think there was a later switch from Rage Pro to Rage Pro Turbo, but my understanding is that the later change makes no real world difference.
A to B ROM adds support for slave IDE. The Rev. A ROM doesn't support slave drives on the built-in IDE regardless of motherboard used.
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Posted by: EvieSigma on 2017-10-17 12:10:41
Huh, the part number of the board ended in a -B but the part number of the ROM ends in a -A. Isn't the Zip drive a slave device though...?
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Posted by: EvilCapitalist on 2017-10-17 12:28:56
Not with the Beige machines. The Apple-spec way of setting up the devices was the CD-ROM on one IDE channel, the HD on the other IDE channel, and the Zip drive on SCSI. It makes it incredibly annoying when you're trying to add a Zip drive to a machine after the fact because the majority of the ones you find inexpensively are all IDE/PATA/ATAPI/whatever you want to call it and the SCSI ones are ridiculously expensive.
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Posted by: EvieSigma on 2017-10-17 12:44:31
Oh, I didn't even realize that when I was disconnecting everything (I was kind of in a hurry because the board was NASTY). Glad I already have the drive then...
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Posted by: Unknown_K on 2017-10-17 13:51:15
The Beige G3s had a spot in the bottom of the case for a second HD, which you can't use on Rev1 machines because of the no slave bug (unless you use SCSI).
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Posted by: Cory5412 on 2017-10-17 14:58:06
Sonnet made a card to help this issue. It may be worth looking into whether you can get one. Without that, I would only bother with a video card if you're going to use OS X, and I would prioritize almost anything over Ethernet, just depending on what you want to do.
I recently found a sonnet SATA card, but I have yet to test it out. I don't know what machine I'll put it in yet.
That three slot limit is a killer...honestly wish we had gotten 4 slots instead of the personality card slot. I can't have VGA, USB, 10/100 Ethernet, and PCI IDE like I'd prefer.
If we're entertaining alternate configurations for the beige G3, the one I personally want is an Audio personality card that also has a Rage128 and a USB controller on it, as a sort of "OS X readiness" package - leaving three slots free for faster networking, storage, OSX-compatible video capture devices, whatever.
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Posted by: EvieSigma on 2017-10-17 15:17:54
I mean, I guess I could live without 10/100 Ethernet if I have to, but USB for easy file loading/use of modern keyboards and a Rage 128 Pro PCI for cheap adapter-free video is really important to me.
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Posted by: Cory5412 on 2017-10-17 15:59:51
Given that all of this is specifically important, have you considered looking for a Blue-And-White Power Macintosh G3, or a Power Macintosh G4?
I haven't looked a lot of late, but it seems surprising to me that video adapters are either so expensive and hard to find and/or that Rage128s for Macs are so cheap and easy to find. This is the opposite of what I would have expected.
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Posted by: Gorgonops on 2017-10-17 16:17:01
I'd sort of second that, IE, if you want a Rage 128, USB, and 10/100 Ethernet that's all stock in a B&W. What you're giving up in that trade is SCSI and Localtalk ports, although SCSI is easy enough to fix. Unless you simply must have Localtalk it's kind of a no brainer.
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Posted by: EvieSigma on 2017-10-17 16:17:13
I've got a Blue and White already, the Beige is going to be my FloppyMaker.
And the last time I got a Rage128, it cost me 10 dollars...
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Posted by: Cory5412 on 2017-10-17 19:21:31
For pure floppy making, you don't need an awful lot.
Regarding video adapters, I don't know how often these come up, but there's this: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Macintosh-RGB-Multisync-Video-Adapters-3-/302488372229- these adapters used to be all over the place, although I imagine they're a little more difficult to shake loose today than they were twenty years ago.
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Posted by: EvieSigma on 2017-10-17 20:30:39
Wow, wish I found those before! Last adaptors I bought cost me 10 dollars each!
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Posted by: Unknown_K on 2017-10-17 21:08:59
I think everybody who has collected macs for a while has a drawer of different video adapters and other odd cables.
For floppy making I generally just use a 68K mac (if you need 400K disks etc).
PCI based PPC are better for storage and file transfers between 68k and PPC/Intel machines.
B&W G3 and later have the advantage of PCIX cards that nobody wants anymore plus more modern devices built in (USB,100MB Ethernet, common SDRAM).
G4's are better for early to later OSX (few people used anything pre 10.4 these days).
G5's only major advantages are SATA hard drives and much more RAM (4-16GB depending on the model tower).
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Posted by: waynestewart on 2017-10-18 08:55:27
I'd sort of second that, IE, if you want a Rage 128, USB, and 10/100 Ethernet that's all stock in a B&W. What you're giving up in that trade is SCSI and Localtalk ports, although SCSI is easy enough to fix. Unless you simply must have Localtalk it's kind of a no brainer. You can even get localtalk though the Stealth serial port might be harder to find
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Posted by: sigtau on 2017-10-18 09:46:26
I guess since this is a good Beige thread to ask questions in, is there a known issue with Mac OS beyond 8.1 that causes it to only play sound through the Personality Card? I have the AV Personality in mine, and while it all appears to be in working order, only when I boot from the FWB utility disc (which is running 8.1) do I get sound from the internal speaker--it seems to only want to redirect through the personality card in versions later than 8.1.
I just wanted to make sure this is a known thing, and if there's a driver or somesuch I need for 9.2.2 to recognize both the built-in audio and the Personality Card (as it only seems to specify "Built In" in the audio control panel, which appears to point to the personality card line out).
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