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| Are the Classic and Classic II worth buying? |
Posted by: just.in.time on 2016-12-01 21:54:06
I owned a Classic with 2mb RAM and 40mb disk around 2004-2006 or so. It was a neat little machine and never had any problems. That must have been right around the sunset of the original capacitors in those things.
Anyways, was moving and only had room for one compact Mac so the Classic got donated and my SE FDHD came with me, and I still have it to this day.
If you can find one in good working order for a fair price locally to avoid shipping costs I'd say go for it. I got mine in 2004 for $10 + another $10 for the keyboard and mouse. That said, I wouldn't pay $50 to ship one.
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Posted by: Anonymous Freak on 2016-12-01 23:05:53
I'd say the Classic II only if you are going for "a complete set of compact Macs".
The Classic has a bit more usability, thanks to the ROM drive. But course an SE FDHD is more useful still, thanks to the expansion slot and lack of need for completely custom memory card to add more memory...
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Posted by: bibilit on 2016-12-01 23:07:51
They are plentiful and cheap, easy to repair (very few capacitors in the Classic) a bit slow but basically the Classic is a Plus in a new suit.
To be honest i have at least a set of them (Classic and Classic II) but don' t like the Plus so much.
It's up to you really.
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Posted by: EvilCapitalist on 2016-12-02 06:12:19
Echoing what everyone else has said, unless your aim is completeness in collected models, or you can find one locally in good shape that's already been recapped (or hasn't yet succumbed to original caps) the Classic / Classic II just aren't worth it. Since you've already got what most consider the best of the compacts, the next best you could easily pick up would be an SE.
My compact ranking goes like this:
Best machine overall: Color Classic II
Pros:
- Solid performer, reasonable RAM ceiling, feels fast in stock form, and of course a color screen
Cons:
- Hard to find in this country unless you've got a pile of cash laying around
Second best machine: SE/30
Pros:
- Ridiculously high RAM ceiling, feels fast in stock form, relatively easy to find
Cons:
- Easy to find with bad caps that have nuked the motherboard, getting hard to find in working condition or already recapped. B/W screen
Third best machine: SE
Pros:
- The workhorse of the compacts: cheap, reliable, relatively easy to find
Cons:
- Low ram ceiling, limited upgrade options
Machines to skip (IMHO) unless you want a complete set of compact Macs:
- 128K/512K - Old enough that collectible pricing is prevalent, very limited usability.
- Plus - No factory internal HD option, no ADB, no easy upgrades
- Classic - Cut-down SE who's only party trick is the bootable ROM image
- Color Classic - Pricey, pricey upgrades, hard to find in decent shape, feels slow in stock form
- Classic II - Color Classic without the color and no upgrades at all apart from FPU cards
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Posted by: EvieSigma on 2016-12-02 08:09:11
Well if all goes well I'll be buying a nice SE next week.
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Posted by: Unknown_K on 2016-12-02 12:52:01
Recapping a Classic II is a pain since parts are so close together, I redid mine before I sold it and recapped another Classic II board before that.
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Posted by: BadGoldEagle on 2016-12-02 14:18:07
If you follow your heart and go for a 2x800k SE, keep in mind that you can still add a hard drive/scsi2sd on top of the second floppy drive.
I plan on sticking a SCSI2SD to my 2x800k SE so I get the best of both worlds.
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Posted by: Unknown_K on 2016-12-02 15:29:31
Compacts looks cool with the external zero footprint SCSI drives as well.
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Posted by: EvieSigma on 2016-12-02 15:47:01
I did end up getting a 2x 800k SE, I'd like to put dual 1.44 floppies in it. 😀
I thought a hard drive needed special brackets to fit a dual floppy SE though.
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Posted by: just.in.time on 2016-12-02 19:21:49
Keep in mind you will definitely have to swap the ROM chips, and maybe the IWM chip as well to use the higher capacity floppy drives... Or you can literally swap the whole logic board from an SE FDHD/SuperDrive model. There was a NOS boxed logic board on eBay the other day for the SE FDHD. Those logic boards (at least mine) still has two floppy drive ports on it.
You can fix up a bracket of sorts yourself if you really needed to for a hard drive in there. Or the SCSI2SD isn't heavy at all and can just be fixed to the top of the floppy drive sled. Just make sure there is something keeping the pins on the bottom of it from touching the metal of the floppy drives/sled below it.
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Posted by: EvieSigma on 2016-12-02 19:27:07
Would the 3D printed mount work for that too, I wonder?
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Posted by: Scott Baret on 2016-12-02 20:21:47
I have seen two different models of SE mounting bracket for dual floppy models with hard drives.
The first is simple and goes on top of the second floppy drive.
The other is a vertical mount that goes where the expansion slot is. I once came across an SE with two internal hard drives: one mounted in the regular slot and the other mounted vertically!
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Posted by: EvieSigma on 2016-12-02 20:37:26
Wow, that's insanity!
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Posted by: Unknown_K on 2016-12-02 20:44:44
The dual floppy with HD on top was fore those thinner 80MB Apple ROM drives.
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Posted by: EvieSigma on 2016-12-02 20:50:37
Okay, so just out of curiosity, how do I tell a non-FDHD/SuperDrive board from a FDHD/SuperDrive board?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Macintosh-SE-Logic-Board-8MHz-0MB-New-Batt-820-0176-B-Vintage-Apple-Motherboard-/132008539669?hash=item1ebc527615:g:KYAAAOSwux5YMKiG
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Apple-Macintosh-SE-661-0526-Motherboard-/122097278184?hash=item1c6d909ce8:g😛kQAAOSwhOVXfrQD
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Apple-Macintosh-SE-Motherboard-PCB-Vintage-/322342194773?hash=item4b0d178e55:g:5JsAAOSw5cNYO5Qu
Aside from some differences in the PRAM battery, these three boards all look exactly the same to me.
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Posted by: just.in.time on 2016-12-02 21:24:28
Okay, taking a couple swings here (and assuming that the ROMs haven't already been swapped out at some point):
I'm guessing the first link is for 800k drives
Second one maybe for 800k drives
Third link may be an SE FDHD 1.44mb board... that desperately needs that ticking time bomb of a Maxell lithium battery tossed out.
Again, these are just my guesses based of some quick googling from some of the numbers in the photos. I could be wrong., or I could be right, but someone else swapped ROMs off of them at some point in the past 25 years. No guarantees.
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Posted by: BlueBoy on 2016-12-02 22:36:23
You are going to have to verify the part numbers on the ROMs and floppy controller chip (IWM - Integrated Woz Machine for 800 KB drives, SWIM - Super Woz Integrated Machine for 1.44 MB drives).
See the details at the excellent Mac SE Support Pages: http://www.ccadams.org/se/super.html
From what I can see the first two you linked are 800 K roms/iwm. The 3rd has the 1.44 MB ROMs/SWIM.
Again, verify the pics on the board yourself before you buy. I just saw at least one board on eBay being sold as a FDHD board that has the 800k ROM part numbers in the photo...
Hope this helps!
I recently purchased an SE myself. It was a Frankenstein-SE with the 800k roms, an internal hard disk, and two internal floppy drives, one 800 k with a broken head, the other surprisingly was a 1.4 MB drive that works well after a cleaning. I also bought a board with the SuperDrive roms and a drive cage with LED which (after 3D printing a drive slot cover) looks somewhat decent and now has a working high density drive. Anyway, good luck to you on you SE.
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Posted by: EvieSigma on 2016-12-03 05:53:00
Thanks!
I plan on making it sort of the ultimate 68000 Mac, like how the SE/30 is the ultimate 030 compact when loaded up with RAM and fun stuff.
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Posted by: Scott Baret on 2016-12-03 07:23:32
Generally, yes, the PRAM battery is removable on a SuperDrive board. Older boards have them soldered in, but some added battery holders later. (I have a non-SuperDrive SE I'd like to do this with once its original Varta battery finally bites the dust).
Regarding the "machines to skip", I wouldn't necessarily stick the Plus there as long as you find one with a keyboard and an external hard drive. It's the last model that gives the feel and overall experience (silent operation) of the original Mac, but it's actually just as usable as the SE aside from the lack of an internal HD.
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Posted by: bibilit on 2016-12-03 07:30:11
I recently purchased an SE myself. It was a Frankenstein-SE with the 800k roms, an internal hard disk, and two internal floppy drives, one 800 k with a broken head, the other surprisingly was a 1.4 MB drive that works well after a cleaning. Well, the 1.44 Mb will fit the SE (even the Plus) and will work fine with 800 k disks, but will not work with the HD ones.
So not unusual.
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