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Radius Rocket Daughterboards
Posted by: jeremywork on 2022-04-27 15:13:48 I suppose this is what I was thinking of, from the back of the PhotoBooster retail box: I trust Radius' own official material, but that Stage II DSP board doesn't seem to have the longer top connector like I think it should (maybe just the lighting/resolution playing tricks...) Hopefully this helps identify these until better pictures turn up:
Posted by: Nathan_A on 2022-04-27 15:26:13 I would be happy to look at replicating either if I can get my hands on a rocket for testing 🙂 I could plausibly facilitate this. I have a Rocket Stage I board that I could pull from my 7100/80 to use for testing.
Posted by: max1zzz on 2022-04-27 16:08:41 If anyone feels like lending you a Stage II daughterboard but not a Stage II Rocket, I'd be glad to lend one of my Stage II Rockets to help you clone the daughterboard. Great, i'll let you know if someone sends a Stage II daughterboard my way I could plausibly facilitate this. I have a Rocket Stage I board that I could pull from my 7100/80 to use for testing. Thanks! I think I might already have a Stage I and SCSI daughterboard headed my way but i'll let you know if that doesn't work out 🙂
Posted by: Trash80toHP_Mini on 2022-04-27 16:49:40 I wonder if drivers can be extricated from RocketWare/Share or developed from scratch to enable a SCSI2 variant to be to be configured as a Socketed/CPU transfer config for Quadras?
Posted by: jeremywork on 2022-04-27 16:57:27 I wonder if drivers can be extricated from RocketWare/Share or developed from scratch to enable a SCSI2 variant to be to be configured as a Socketed/CPU transfer config for Quadras? Like a PDS SCSI board sitting between the 040 and motherboard?
Posted by: Trash80toHP_Mini on 2022-04-27 20:01:08 Exactly, 68030 too if possible. Perfect for hooking up a v6 Fast/Narrow SCSI II SD. 😉
Posted by: jeremywork on 2022-04-27 20:15:03 Exactly, 68030 too if possible. Perfect for hooking up a v6 Fast/Narrow SCSI II SD. 😉 Starting here would probably be good: https://68kmla.org/bb/index.php?threads/ebay-finds-thread.5139/post-406933 I've been meaning to see whether this works with my FastCache Quadra (have heard it does) and the PowerPro (have heard it doesn't.) Maybe tonight or this week I'll get to it. Edit: if we could make a smaller version of the Sixty Eight Thousand RAID Warrior we should basically be in business.
Posted by: Trash80toHP_Mini on 2022-04-28 07:12:34 Muddled morning musing: I'm thinking that the Duo's SCSI MicroDock might be a better starting point. Haven't opened mine up to check, but not an Apple development project. OEM'd by __?__ so it might be a standard SCSI interface IC? ADB is a simple passthru, so no ASIC required or bodged on purpose by Apple. Available(?) SCSI II IC might work?
Posted by: Johnnya101 on 2022-04-28 07:35:58 If one were to make this reproduction SCSI board successfully, would it hypothetically be possible to adapt it as a IIfx PDS card? It would be one of the first IIfx PDS cards.
Posted by: cheesestraws on 2022-04-28 08:24:42 would it hypothetically be possible to adapt it as a IIfx PDS card It'd be easier to clone the IIfx SCSI Bolt, which is precisely this, and for which the schematics are, IIRC, available.
Posted by: mg.man on 2022-04-28 09:03:51 It'd be easier to clone the IIfx SCSI Bolt While we're at it... what about the PLI QuickSCSI? What does our resident cloning guru [a.k.a. @max1zzz] think?
Posted by: max1zzz on 2022-04-28 09:40:36 It'd be easier to clone the IIfx SCSI Bolt, which is precisely this, and for which the schematics are, IIRC, available. Have you got a link to the schematics, a quick bit of googleing turned up neither the card or schematics.... While we're at it... what about the PLI QuickSCSI? Hardware wise it looks fairly easy to clone however I count no less than 7 GAL's so all of those need to either be unprotected or vulnerable to the glitch attack
Posted by: mg.man on 2022-04-28 09:43:20 I count no less than 7 GAL's so all of those need to either be unprotected or vulnerable to the glitch attack Yeah.... I did spot that on closer inspection. I suppose there's only one (potentially destructive) way to find out? 😕
Posted by: max1zzz on 2022-04-28 09:48:02 Yeah.... I did spot that on closer inspection. I suppose there's only one (potentially destructive) way to find out? 😕 I wouldn't mind desoldering the GAL's to try, but that card is is selling for just a little more than I would pay to find out!
Posted by: mg.man on 2022-04-28 09:52:21 that card is is selling for just a little more than I would pay to find out! well... as it happens... I have one. 🙂 But if it's 50/50 (or worse?) the patient won't make it through the operation - I'll need to ponder some...
Posted by: max1zzz on 2022-04-28 09:58:39 well... as it happens... I have one. 🙂 But if it's 50/50 (or worse?) the patient won't make it through the operation - I'll need to ponder some... The odds are pretty good, I wouldn't expect to have any issue with removing the IC's, in theory there is always a small chance of damaging the GAL's with the glitch attack but I haven't personally had this happen (Though I de remember @Bolle saying he had this happen to him)
Posted by: Trash80toHP_Mini on 2022-04-28 09:59:21 edit: you beat me to it! @Bolle is probably the guy to ask, though max probably knows the yes/no of the possibility of reversing that morass of GALs Aside from the NCR SCSI chip I haven't looked up these are the only other components: ROM - DeclROM Bus Transceivers: 74ALS651 datasheet from Philips 74ALS541 Octal Buffer and Line Driver Drop the NuBus MUX from the spec and we're on the way to PDS/CPU Socket compatibility. ____________________________________ . . . if it's 50/50 (or worse?) the patient won't make it through the operation - I'll need to ponder some... If it's unlikely the same GAL bites the big one on two cards, buying the second one for a fix of the first (or both) changes the odds considerably.
Posted by: jeremywork on 2022-04-28 11:44:31 For the purposes of combining with an 030/040 socket adapter, the IIfx SCSI Bolt and RAID Warrior are precisely suited for this already. Both narrow SCSI II controllers on 030(IIfx) and 040 PDS connectors, and neither seemingly too complex (at least compared to the Nubus SCSI cards.) I do have two SCSI Bolts in case this passes the feasibility threshold. If I lent one it wouldn’t need to survive but it’d be nice. The RAID Warrior I only have one of, but it’s probably very similar to the IIfx one and may be enough just to probe it after the IIfx model is figured out. What schematics I do have are attached to the top post here: https://68kmla.org/bb/index.php?threads/sixty-eight-thousand-inc-revival-thread.40798/ I’m fully aware of the danger of feature creep, but would a selectable L2 cache and 1x/1.5x/2x speed jumper setup be terribly complex to add? QuadDoubler type things are seriously thin on the ground, and IIRC there’s already a cloning project under way. Jumpers would help maximize the usefulness in the largest selection of machines. An inline port for one of the currently-in-production SD adapters would also make it friendlier (or integration right into the card, but this may be overkill and pose a hangup if parts run low.)
Posted by: Trash80toHP_Mini on 2022-04-28 16:23:43 Feature creepback. 😉 AFAIK, there's only one SD in town for SCSI II and that's the v6, so stick connector only. IIfx already has 32K of L2 so that's a no go unless someone wants to noodle out L3 🤪 Anything less will likely have PDS Accelerator with Cache on board if looking at SCSI II enhancement. KISS! On the other hand, a metric crapload of RAM on a card for the IIfx PDS addressed as a RAM Disk under Virtual . . .
Posted by: jeremywork on 2022-04-28 16:37:48 Feature creepback. 😉 AFAIK, there's only one SD in town for SCSI II and that's the v6, so stick connector only. IIfx already has 32K of L2 so that's a no go unless someone wants to noodle out L3 🤪 Anything less will likely have PDS Accelerator with Cache on board if looking at SCSI II enhancement. KISS! On the other hand, a metric crapload of RAM on a card for the IIfx PDS addressed as a RAM Disk under Virtual . . . The IIfx itself, yes. But if this works, wouldn't we want to enhance other 030 models? The 128k cache for 040s would perhaps be more desirable, and a 1x/1.5x/2x config would allow 25/33/40MHz models to use the same card. I'm trying to work out how to make it fit in multiple models though... The QuadDoublers were sold in many versions just to accommodate the different board layouts. All tangential to the SCSI device, though. I've just wished for more availability of those things. AzulSCSI? AztecMonster? Those both seem fast enough to be narrow SCSI II. A simple 50-pin is all that's really required to be in business.
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