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HPV vs AV - Power Mac 8100/110
Posted by: Becks79 on 2023-09-12 10:31:56 Heya. First, I'm very happy to join your forum. I've heard it mentioned a lot in youtube videos about vintage Macs. Secondly. I've just got my first ever Mac, a very lovely Power Macintosh 8100/110. This system came with a Newer Tech MaxPowr G3 at 240MHz, and the AV video card, rather than the HPV you'd normally expect in the 110. It's also got the maximum 264MB of RAM, so I should be pretty well kitted out, but: How is the performance of the AV card vs. the HPV? Would the AV card limit what software and games I could run on this system? Is it worth shelling out $150 or so to get the HPV card + 4 VRAM SIMMs? Also, the fan in the PSU is quite noisy, and I'd like to replace it with something quieter, but with the fact that there's no other active airflow, I also don't want to risk overheating. So, does anyone know the specs for that fan? CFM etc? I'm considering simply going with something fairly high end from Noctua. Do you reckon that would be enough? Thanks in advance for any assistance 🙂
Posted by: Phipli on 2023-09-12 10:43:39 Heya. First, I'm very happy to join your forum. Welcome 🙂 Power Macintosh 8100/110 Nice, the 110MHz 🙂 Never got my hands on one. What is the bus speed? 36.7MHz? Is it worth shelling out $150 or so to get the HPV card + 4 VRAM SIMMs? You should be able to find one much cheaper than that, but you might have to watch for a long time. How is the performance of the AV card vs. the HPV? The HPVs is faster, but not a huge amount. The reason is that the HPVs are faster is that they have a 64bit wide connection to the processor, while the AV cards are only 32bit wide. Note there are two versions of the HPV, the 8100 came with one with 2MB built in, upgradable to 4MB. They're hard to find, you have to basically look really closely to see the difference. But.... The other 1MB (Max 2MB) version is just as fast. Note the AV is fixed at 2MB VRAM. Also, the fan in the PSU is quite noisy, and I'd like to replace it with something quieter, but with the fact that there's no other active airflow, I also don't want to risk overheating. So, does anyone know the specs for that fan? CFM etc? I'm considering simply going with something fairly high end from Noctua. Do you reckon that would be enough? I don't advise using a noctua. You will likely find it will be a huge amount quieter if you clean off dust and dirt, then put about 3 drops of silicone oil in the bearing.
Posted by: Phipli on 2023-09-12 11:10:01 Would the AV card limit what software and games I could run on this system? Missed this bit - no, it wouldn't, you might have a slight reduction in frame rate, but the main thing vs. a 4MB FPV would be able to do 24bit colour at higher resolutions, mainly for photo editing sort of thing.
Posted by: Becks79 on 2023-09-12 12:03:24 I've cleaned out the fan, but I've not added oil, so I'll do that next time I have the system open (when my BlueSCSI v2 arrives). I did have the PSU open and cleaned out all the dust and such, and to have a look at the caps. Fortunately they appear to be top shelf components, so I don't expect a recap will be necessary yet, but I am getting a hot air station so I can recap the motherboard. I also have my bf's old Performa 400 that really needs a recap, so the sooner, the better I guess. There's a 2MB (with 4 empty SIMM slots) HPV card on eBay currently (the market for old Apple hardware is pretty poor her in Norway), and while the card isn't too badly priced, there's shipping from the US to Norway + import tax and VAT. In addition, the price for the VRAM SIMMs is...ehh, not appealing. I think I might just stick with the AV card for the time being. I'm curious if I'd be able to play Baldur's Gate and Diablo on this system. If I can, that's plenty good enough. I'm also toying with the idea of getting an old video camera, and try to make some videos and edit them on the Power Mac for that true vintage look. Time will tell if I can find the motivation for that. I definitely intend to hook it up to my MOTU Midi Timepiece AV USB though. That has RS-422 serial port specifically for Mac, so it should hopefully work well with my system, and I can try out doing some midi sequencing on it as well 🙂
Posted by: cheesestraws on 2023-09-12 12:08:13 As a note, the 8100 case is extremely prone to falling apart. Some parts of the internal plastic are extremely brittle after all these years. I might suggest that you do as many of the things inside the machine at once as possible to avoid taking it to bits unnecessarily. I'd be inclined personally to see if you can do what you want to do with the AV card before trying to hunt down an upgrade.
Posted by: Becks79 on 2023-09-12 12:25:24 As a note, the 8100 case is extremely prone to falling apart. Some parts of the internal plastic are extremely brittle after all these years. I might suggest that you do as many of the things inside the machine at once as possible to avoid taking it to bits unnecessarily. I'd be inclined personally to see if you can do what you want to do with the AV card before trying to hunt down an upgrade. Oh yes. It's EXTREMELY brittle. When I received it, plastic bits came drizzling out of the box it was packed in. I spent a day gluing together as much as possible. The reset and interrupt switches are missing, although the internal part they should have been part of is still there, although the clips that should hold that in place are broken, and were not in the box. I have an Amiga 1200 and multiple old PCs, but none are anywhere near as brittle as the Power Mac. I mean, I'd heard about the brittle Apple plastics, and I see that none of it was exaggerated. The system as it sits now, looks fairly intact aside from the missing switches, although I don't think it should be too hard to fix those. I had another look at the HPV card on eBay, and it turns out it's the 1MB version, so definitely not going for that one. And yes, I definitely don't want to open this system up more times than I have to. I imagine a total of two more times, once for installing BlueSCSI and overhauling or replacing the fan. And once for recapping and fixing the switches. Oh, and I miiight swap out the slow 2x CD-ROM drive for my Plextor 8x CD-R drive that is currently installed in my Pentium Pro.
Posted by: 3lectr1cPPC on 2023-09-12 12:57:13 Looks like someone swapped all the bezels out a long time ago, they’re more yellow than the rest. And yeah, 90s plastics across the board are pretty bad. Not just apple, although they probably have the worst reputation for it. It really depends on how well built the hardware you’re dealing with is, and apple used some really thin plastics.
Posted by: macuserman on 2023-09-12 13:22:34 Looks like someone swapped all the bezels out a long time ago, they’re more yellow than the rest. As my favorite case design this is why I make a point to collect these bezels. 😂
Posted by: volvo242gt on 2023-09-12 13:24:15 (see next post)
Posted by: volvo242gt on 2023-09-12 13:27:09 As a note, the 8100 case is extremely prone to falling apart. Some parts of the internal plastic are extremely brittle after all these years. I might suggest that you do as many of the things inside the machine at once as possible to avoid taking it to bits unnecessarily. I'd be inclined personally to see if you can do what you want to do with the AV card before trying to hunt down an upgrade. Most of the Quadra 800 and PM8100 machines are now good donors for the IIci and IIvx form factor machines... Like the Centris 650, PowerMac 7100, etc...
Posted by: Phipli on 2023-09-12 13:31:44 Most of the Quadra 800 and PM8100 machines are now good donors for the IIci and IIvx form factor machines... Like the Centris 650, PowerMac 7100, etc... Fair bit of work, ports are in different places and only the 7100 has an opening for the PDS video card (and your not technically meant to run one without a PDS card, unless you have a PDS terminator). Edit - to say nothing of how different the 8100 PSU connector is to the rest of the machines mentioned.
Posted by: macuserman on 2023-09-12 13:33:00 unless you have a PDS terminator Those are super rare, not much on them, surprised nobody has cloned those yet.
Posted by: Phipli on 2023-09-12 13:33:59 Those are super rare, not much on them, surprised nobody has cloned those yet. Because it's at my parents house, not here 🤣
Posted by: 3lectr1cPPC on 2023-09-12 13:37:52 As my favorite case design this is why I make a point to collect these bezels. View attachment 61953 😂 You’re a monster.
Posted by: macuserman on 2023-09-12 13:42:57 You’re a monster. Now that's not very nice to say! 😛
Posted by: joshc on 2023-09-12 13:46:09 As my favorite case design this is why I make a point to collect these bezels. View attachment 61953 😂 Blimey... are they multiplying in your sleep? If you get any more they might start to take over the planet...
Posted by: macuserman on 2023-09-12 14:00:17 Blimey... are they multiplying in your sleep? If you get any more they might start to take over the planet... Lol no they are just hard to find and fragile and without them the cases look like poo so I started saving them.
Posted by: 3lectr1cPPC on 2023-09-12 14:02:48 Now that's not very nice to say! 😛 I’m no better. I’d totally keep a box o’ bezels if I had them.
Posted by: Forrest on 2023-09-12 14:34:46 The Radius 81/110 specs are nearly identical, but it has a full metal case.
Posted by: 3lectr1cPPC on 2023-09-12 14:55:56 It definitely isn’t a looker though.
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