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| Apple IIe Trade - IIGS |
Posted by: Joad on 2015-06-14 13:39:29
Hey guys, I am planning to trade my Apple IIe to a WOZ edition IIGS. Should I?
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Posted by: TheWhiteFalcon on 2015-06-14 13:43:20
Assuming it's a ROM 1 like most Woz editions I'd say no.
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Posted by: Joad on 2015-06-14 13:47:02
Hmm, what about an Apple II Plus. I am seling a monitor, two disk drives and the machine itself for 500 bucks and planing to buy this one;
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TRES-RARE-ORDINATEUR-APPLE-II-2-EUROPLUS-CARTES-1979-TRES-BON-ETAT-/351336658613?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_71&hash=item51cd4bf6b5
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Posted by: david__schmidt on 2015-06-14 13:48:15
It depends. Both have their plusses and minuses. The GS has a bunch of stuff built in that the IIe doesn't (serial card, floppy cards, faster CPU). The IIe has a built-in keyboard and (according to me) more retro cred. In terms of pure monetary value, it's probably not a good deal for you, if that's important. If you do go through with it... be sure to get a keyboard and maybe a mouse to go with it.
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Posted by: Elfen on 2015-06-14 15:49:14
You would be better off getting a IIgs motherboard and put into the IIe case. There is are IIe > IIgs upgrade kits, you just have to find them.
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Posted by: Charlieman on 2015-06-14 16:09:38
For the IIgs, you need a colour monitor for games (or GS/OS which is great). You need a 3.5" 800KB external floppy. If feeling rich, you'll fall for mass storage -- a SCSI card or modern alternative. It's an expensive change.
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Posted by: TheWhiteFalcon on 2015-06-14 16:13:15
You would be better off getting a IIgs motherboard and put into the IIe case. There is are IIe > IIgs upgrade kits, you just have to find them. Not really, seeing as you can't use most of the GS cards or upgrades. You're also wasting a perfectly good IIe.
I recommend a different IIgs just because you need a later ROM revision to fully run the later GS/OS versions and use other things. You can get the Woz model if you want, but you might want to look for a ROM 3 board if you want the full GS experience.
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Posted by: techknight on 2015-06-14 16:49:09
cant you just burn a new EPROM with a later ROM version?
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Posted by: miniMOJOman on 2015-06-14 16:56:30
cant you just burn a new EPROM with a later ROM version? are you saying changing a rom1 IIgs to a rom3? If so, how?!
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Posted by: TheWhiteFalcon on 2015-06-14 16:58:02
Never heard of that being done. The ROM 3 board is also different, more onboard RAM, etc. It also has two ROM chips vs the one of the older boards.
And I think I goofed; the ROM 1 does work with later stuff, it's the ROM 0 that doesn't. But most Woz units were 0.
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Posted by: techknight on 2015-06-14 19:37:40
Well I am not familiar with the Apple II stuff at all. thats why I asked.
I see the word "ROM" thrown around alot in the apple II community, So I assumed ROM means ROM versions, and you can flash ROMs.... but if the hardware is totally different.. well.... ya know.
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Posted by: NJRoadfan on 2015-06-14 19:46:49
ROM 0 and ROM 1 have the same board, just different firmware. ROM 3 was a redesign and included 1MB of RAM onboard.
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Posted by: miniMOJOman on 2015-06-14 21:23:27
Well I am not familiar with the Apple II stuff at all. thats why I asked.
I see the word "ROM" thrown around alot in the apple II community, So I assumed ROM means ROM versions, and you can flash ROMs.... but if the hardware is totally different.. well.... ya know. haha neither am I, I have a IIgs sitting around but dont want to use it unless I can install GS/OS on it, and I would need either a SCSI card (which seem to run about 200$) or the floppyemu thingy I guess?? I haven't had the time to do the necessary research, but hopefully this year sometime.
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Posted by: Elfen on 2015-06-14 21:29:08
Like the others have said, the ROM3 boards are a complete redesign of the system, like a Mac Plus or SE is to a Mac 512Ke.
The ROM3 allows the use the GS-OS which is the Apple II version of Mac System, with windows and other nice things. Its basically becomes a 6502 Mac - LOL! Before this, GEM (used on the Atari ST) was developed for many machines including Apple IIs but Xerox failed to properly complete with Microsoft and basically lost the Digital Wars. And C64's GEOS was also later released for the Apple II as well.
Enough of my mindless rants...
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Posted by: Joad on 2015-06-15 06:53:21
What about a boxed IIc or an Europlus? Would you buy one of those? Or are they just overpriced? Where I can find an Apple II original, and how much would it cost?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/TRES-RARE-ORDINATEUR-APPLE-II-2-EUROPLUS-CARTES-1979-TRES-BON-ETAT-/351336658613?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_71&hash=item51cd4bf6b5
http://www.ebay.com/itm/TRES-RARE-ORDINATEUR-APPLE-IIc-2c-1984-ECRAN-SUPPORT-BOITES-DORIGINES-/351404580773?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_71&hash=item51d1585fa5
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Posted by: Elfen on 2015-06-15 08:50:59
The differences between an Apple II and a EuroApple II is the keyboard and the Character ROM. Just like the Apples sold in Spain and South America. Other than that they are electronically the same. It is not that rare of a machine, except in the USA (like the Color Classic II sold in Europe and Canada and PowerBook 2400 series sold in Japan). It depends on your location. Even Chinese and Russian Apple II Clones are electronically the same except for the cases, keyboards and Character ROMs and are not that rare in their native areas but rare outside these areas. My friend Dr. Levinson collected Apple IIs and their clones, owning a couple Chinese "Orange" and "Pineapple" Apple II Clones.
I am no expert in figuring out prices in Apple IIs, especially in Ebay-Europe. But the prices in the links you shown are up to par with the mid to high end of prices here on the Ebay-USA. 450€ / $505USD for a IIc, even complete Is a bit high I think. Shipping it will be expensive.
Good luck on finding what you want and need.
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Posted by: Charlieman on 2015-06-15 09:09:28
The differences between an Apple II and a EuroApple II is the keyboard and the Character ROM. And the packaging and the manual...
Many Americans do not understand "the rest of the world".
So when considering Apple II variants, we have to think about the Apple J-Plus. The J-Plus could present Japanese text on screen. But it wasn't Japanese text that most Japanese could read.
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Posted by: Elfen on 2015-06-15 09:48:42
You're right on that, CharlieMan! But it is rare to get the whole package these days, just the Comp-In-A-Box!
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Posted by: Gorgonops on 2015-06-15 15:19:24
I guess I have to admit I'm a little confused: is there a reason why you're getting rid of a good IIe setup to replace it with "any of a II Plus/IIc/IIgs"? Here's my thoughts on the entirety of the Apple II line:
Original II: *Very* expensive these days, especially if you want one in original condition. (Original motherboard, integer ROMs, etc.) These are getting into that zone where they're sort of too valuable to play with, IE, only good for museum pieces.
Apple II Plus: Attractive primarily because it's technically the same machine as the original, and as it's the last II that's made out of generic 7400-series logic (IE, no ASICs other than PROMs) it has the advantage of being repairable by a skilled person without having to cannabalize another unit. Has a good retro feel and when equipped with a language card can run most Apple II software that doesn't specifically require IIe features, but can't really do anything that a IIe *can't*. (Other than run a small selection of software that barfs on IIe's.)
Apple IIe: If you want the Apple II that epitomizes the line get this one. It's the one everyone remembers, it has the largest software base, and it's common enough that you can have a complete system for well under the price of the others.
Apple IIc: Cute and almost 100% compatible with the IIe, but there's no technical reason to prefer it over the IIe. Get it because you specifically want "cute".
Apple IIgs: It's two computers in one: an Apple IIe with an extended memory card, and a quirky 16 bit computer with a neat sound chip, colorful (if somewhat awkwardly proportioned) graphics, and a sadly underclocked CPU. Whether it's "better" than a IIe really comes down to whether you care about that other computer or not.
In short, well, I can see why you might want to swap a IIe with *one* of the other systems, IE, you'd want a Plus because it's "more retro", a IIc because it's compact and pretty, or a IIgs because you want to play with GS software, but wanting to trade a IIe for *any* of them doesn't quite click. What are your priorities for the system? Do you want a pristine musuem piece to look at (which would be the justification for an in-box unit) and don't really care what it is, a "daily driver" system to play with, or do you want the system that's the most "historically significant"? A IIe does quite well in both the "daily driver" and "historically significant" categories; yes, it's dirt common and therefore "boring", but it being common also means it has a lot of nostalgia associated with it (most kids who had Apple II's in schools had Apple IIes, after all).
Specifically on the topic of "Woz" IIgs-es: note that the ROM 0/1 IIgs actually does have several hardware flaws. There are known issues with both the Mega II chip and the keyboard controller, neither of which can be repaired without a motherboard swap. (Or desoldering components from a unit with working chips and transferring them over) I have two "Woz"-es and only one works completely; I don't know how widespread these problems really are but it's my understanding that the keyboard controller thing is something that actually started cropping up when Apple was still making them. If you buy a "Woz" make sure it's been completely tested.
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